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Halibut Charter Moritorium being announced this week

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  • AKCAPT
    replied
    Originally posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    I think the captain should get the permit regardless of who owns the boat, not sure I made myself clear before on that.
    It is a tough deal for paid captains.... as was the IFQ program and Crab Ratz for crewmen.....but it is an open access fishery as of right now, so everyone has had years to start a business and get a boat. Running a boat takes no investment. I have had three captains work for me in the last four years taking turns running two boats. Those boats are going to get two permits total....Who should get it then?

    I have also ran each boat as has the other owner so a total of 5 of us were captains on the two boats that me and my partner have invested 500K in buying years ago. Would it be fair to give the permits to two of the five captains who invested nothing and ran the boats for part of season?

    No. The only fair way is to go with the owners of the business. As crappy of a deal as it is every is in control of their own lives and plenty of paid captains have talked their wealthy clients into buying them boats and getting them into business, which is why there is limited entry coming in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • ak_powder_monkey
    replied
    Originally posted by 270ti View Post
    I spoke with the guy who authored the document linked to yesterday on the phone.

    He said they were issuing them to the business owners, because they had invested money into the business. If the boats were owned by the bank, should the bank get the permits?
    I think the captain should get the permit regardless of who owns the boat, not sure I made myself clear before on that.

    Leave a comment:


  • AKCAPT
    replied
    Grampy,

    I can't believe it but I agree with everything you are saying! There is no way to move forward in controlling our industry until you identify who the actual particpants are and what they are catching. The problem is that there is a 30% attrition rate in the charter industry so so many are coming and going that it is impossible to develop a group that accepts responsiblity for responsbly managing them selves. I am done here I have a broken index finger and it is cramping my typing style....

    Leave a comment:


  • Grampyfishes
    replied
    Originally posted by theilercabin
    The halibut moratorium is a joke. The sheer economics of this season and the next couple seasons will weed out the charter fleet like nothing else will. There will be many charters that will be going out of business.
    The whole intention of the moratorium is to curtail growth of the charter industry. Relying on economics to do the job is ambiguous. As you know, economic conditions fluxuate widely. In times of economic prosperity the charter industry would continue to grow uncontrolled, unless an official moratorium is in place. We can also look at a past history of periods of poor economic times and see that the industry survived robustly, and in fact continued to grow to what it is today.

    Originally posted by theilercabin
    The halibut charter business isn't a a business where you can make good money...may profit $400 and change...We bascially have a 90 day window...
    That's $36,000 in just 3 months...More than some school teachers who invested in college degrees make in an entire school year. Extrapolated out for a year, that would be almost $150,000. And of course many charters do much better than $400/day.


    Originally posted by theilercabin
    I am not relying on the income for my livelihood.
    That makes sense since chartering is only short, seasonal work, and totally dependent on recreational-orientated economics and the sustainability of a natural resource. I doubt any reasonable person would expect the halibut charter industry to provide them a livelihood. The history of the industry shows halibut chartering originated as a way for many locals to supplement their main incomes doing something they enjoyed...fishing.


    Originally posted by theilercabin
    I don't think most people understand how this economy is really effecting the sportfishing industry up here.
    Most rational people understand that recreational-oriented industries, particularly those depending on domestic tourism, usually get hit the hardest in times of economic crunch. Businesses all over the country are hurting bad. Although I have concern and sympathy for our recreational charter industry, I wonder if the hundreds of thousands who lost their jobs in the auto industry, etc. feel the same?


    Originally posted by theilercabin
    On top of everything else, you are in a constant battle with the forces that be over allocation issues, it's really a no win situation.
    Actually, since the charter industry has never had a limit on allocation, the battle they've been fighting is one of their own making...resisting any limit on allocation. The moritorium should help reduce those battles, as the GHL's etc. will be better achieved.

    No doubt the charter industry is in for a change. But I think it's in the best interest of the fishery, the resource, and the people. We all knew it was coming. My only concern is, is it enough, and where are the loopholes....

    Leave a comment:


  • AKCAPT
    replied
    wages

    Originally posted by Big Dipper View Post
    Most commercial operations pay a percentage of the gross boat receipts to the crew. Seems like these charter operations are basically sweatshops.
    My captain makes 350 per day plus 50% of the tips. That is at least 450 a day. For a 100 ton license that is a premium wage for going sportfishing every day. That is also 45 grand for a 4 month season. Hardly sweatshop wages. I can't speak for SE Alaska but in our area charterboat Captain jobs are good work for 4 months by any standard.

    Leave a comment:


  • 270ti
    replied
    Originally posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    isn't the state also looking at a limited entry program or was the report I heard on the news this afternoon wrong?

    Also isn't the moritorium/limited entry just for SEAK?

    About time this happened, but I agree permits should be issued to the actual guide not the bussiness owner just like commercial permits are to the fisherman and not the cannery, and the permit holder must be on board while fishing

    I spoke with the guy who authored the document linked to yesterday on the phone.

    He said they were issuing them to the business owners, because they had invested money into the business. If the boats were owned by the bank, should the bank get the permits?

    Leave a comment:


  • ak_powder_monkey
    replied
    isn't the state also looking at a limited entry program or was the report I heard on the news this afternoon wrong?

    Also isn't the moritorium/limited entry just for SEAK?

    About time this happened, but I agree permits should be issued to the actual guide not the bussiness owner just like commercial permits are to the fisherman and not the cannery, and the permit holder must be on board while fishing

    Leave a comment:


  • captaindd
    replied
    n Valdez most of the skippers make around $300 aday plus tips. Average charter is $1500 fuel cost $600 booking fee $150 bait $40 other gear $30 insurance $100 based on 50 charters. total expenses $920 not including the Captains wages The Captains that do not own boats do so because they do not want the hassel of paying and maintaining the boat.

    Gross $1500
    Booking Fee $150
    Fuel Per Day $600
    Bait per Day $40
    Other Gear $30
    Insurance per Day $100
    Total Expenses per Day $920
    Net to Business $580
    If you use hired Captain $300
    Net to Business $280
    Does not include slip fee,business LC,State Guide LC, or any maintence bills

    Leave a comment:


  • theilercabin
    replied
    What a joke

    The halibut moratorium is a joke. The sheer economics of this season and the next couple seasons will weed out the charter fleet like nothing else will. There will be many charters that will be going out of business. Those permits won't be worth the paper they are printed on. I am tell you first hand, the halibut charter business isn't a a business where you can make good money. I've learned this the hard way. We do ok, but I am not relying on the income for my livelihood. It breaks down like this, on a six pac boat on average the charter operation may profit $400 and change, barring nothing major going wrong, if something major were to take place, let's say losing a lower unit, or any other sort of major damage, the operator could be out the entire season's profits. We bascially have a 90 day window to break even and make a profit. Your typical charter may do 50-70 trips in a season, some a little more, some a lot less. So, $20,000/$25,000 is bascially what a descent operation will profit as a business. Now let's look at this season, for a whole lot of folks even the ones that have been in business a while are looking at that window shrinking drastically. I've talked to several lodge and charter owners that basically have a good July and that's it, with a few trips in June and August. That window is looking more like 40 days instead of 90, over 50% decrease. It will put a lot of folks out of business and looking for a new line of work, same goes for the guides and lodges. I don't think most people understand how this economy is really effecting the sportfishing industry up here.

    On top of everything else, you are in a constant battle with the forces that be over allocation issues, it's really a no win situation. We'll just try and have some fun this year. I am just glad I have other pokers in the fire.

    Leave a comment:


  • iceblue
    replied
    I think that he is saying a booking fee is $150 on a average number of trips per season. The $600 is the fuel cost estimate that he giving over the same amount of trips.

    Leave a comment:


  • kgpcr
    replied
    Originally posted by captaindd View Post
    In Valdez most of the skippers make around $300 aday plus tips. Average charter is $1500 fuel cost $600 booking fee $150 bait $40 other gear $30 insurance $100 based on 50 charters. total expenses $920 not including the Captains wages The Captains that do not own boats do so because they do not want the hassel of paying and maintaining the boat.
    I dont understand your numbers. I am know nothing about your costs but have run business my whole life and your numbers dont add up. Whats a booking fee of 600.00? the expenses listed dont make it 920.00 for a one day trip. Help me out here. Like i said i know nothign about your busines. Just trying to understand. Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • garnede
    replied
    The only way to check them is to see what they paid taxes on. If they logged sport craft as being "guided" then I bet they did not pay taxes on the revenue that they should have earned from those trips. Tax records are usually the best records.


    Originally posted by 270ti View Post
    I'm curious how the logbooks can be interpreted as "fact" for these lodges? If in 04 and 05 the lodge owners fudged the log books to make it seem like they ran more charters than they actually did? How can they prove the boats actually left the dock, other than what THEY put on the log books. I recall back in those years working for a lodge and the owner was registering his buddies sport boats to "protect himself" as he put it.

    This entire thing is a scam in my opinion. You South Central boyz might do it legit, but in SE where most of the problems are, lots of shady charter operators exist. It boils my blood thinking about all those out of state fly by night charter nazi's in Sitka getting permits!

    Leave a comment:


  • 270ti
    replied
    Originally posted by Big Dipper View Post
    Most commercial operations pay a percentage of the gross boat receipts to the crew. Seems like these charter operations are basically sweatshops.

    I worked for an operation for a few years as a captain when I was first starting out where the out of state lodge owner would pay his help (fish cutters, maids, cooks) 1k a month, plus tips. He'd work them 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. He'd find unsuspecting college kids from down south who loved the outdoors and expect them to quit after a season.

    Are these the people we want to give 'forever' rights to the industry?

    Leave a comment:


  • Palmer
    replied
    Thanks for that link, aklefty.

    Leave a comment:


  • 270ti
    replied
    I'm curious how the logbooks can be interpreted as "fact" for these lodges? If in 04 and 05 the lodge owners fudged the log books to make it seem like they ran more charters than they actually did? How can they prove the boats actually left the dock, other than what THEY put on the log books. I recall back in those years working for a lodge and the owner was registering his buddies sport boats to "protect himself" as he put it.

    This entire thing is a scam in my opinion. You South Central boyz might do it legit, but in SE where most of the problems are, lots of shady charter operators exist. It boils my blood thinking about all those out of state fly by night charter nazi's in Sitka getting permits!

    Leave a comment:

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