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  • #31
    Salmon fry/smolt have been injected with coded wire tags for many, many years. Especially hatchery fish. Hatchery fish also have fins clipped, and otoliths marked to identify where and when they came from.

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    • #32
      While this kind of remote tracking research is still in its infancy, it has in fact already been done in AK. But the reality is that even with our most miniaturized electronics, to track a salmon at sea requires a device somewhat larger than can be accomplished with a single implanted microchip. And anytime you attach a device, no matter how small, to a fish at sea it's almost certain to alter the fish's behavior somehow. It also makes the fish more vulnerable to predation. Many of the salmon sporting trackers have ended up inside salmon sharks.
      ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
      I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
      The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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      • #33
        Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
        While this kind of remote tracking research is still in its infancy, it has in fact already been done in AK. But the reality is that even with our most miniaturized electronics, to track a salmon at sea requires a device somewhat larger than can be accomplished with a single implanted microchip. And anytime you attach a device, no matter how small, to a fish at sea it's almost certain to alter the fish's behavior somehow. It also makes the fish more vulnerable to predation. Many of the salmon sporting trackers have ended up inside salmon sharks.
        I seem to recall a study where kings with trackers were suddenly diving deep and experiencing ambient temperature 20-30 degrees warmer than the surrounding water, this happened to all or the vast majority of the tracked kings in the study. It took the scientists a while but they finally figured out that the trackers were leading to the salmon being slowed down enough that they were being targeted by the predators.
        I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. Physicist ― Richard Feynman

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        • #34
          Well maybe it's time to make commercial operators, of all sizes, retain their salmon bycatch and turn to DNA sampling. Use money to put observers on boats to make sure it is done. One thing that is very clear to me is that the cost of a fishing license, resident/non-resident is way to little to manage the waters of a state the size of AK. Time to buck-up, everyone, otherwise fishing is going to keep declining.

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          • #35
            I really have to emphasize that AK is not collecting enough revenue. In CA the resident fishing license is $52.66 and goes up every year. An ocean enhancement stamp of $5.97 is also required and goes up every year. I just purchased a lobster harvest card for $10.54 which also goes up every year. If I do not turn in my harvest card at the end of the season I have to pay a fine before I can purchase another one for the following season, and yes the state knows because every license that I purchased is done with a swipe of my drivers license and every license holder gets a permanent ID number. Well I can only imagine what you guys are thinking, glad I live in AK. In reality you guys live in a wonderful place but as a seasonal resident I do see the need for changes and one of the biggest changes needs to be a bigger revenue flow to help pay for research in regards to the king salmon decline.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by river mist View Post
              I really have to emphasize that AK is not collecting enough revenue. In CA the resident fishing license is $52.66 and goes up every year. An ocean enhancement stamp of $5.97 is also required and goes up every year. I just purchased a lobster harvest card for $10.54 which also goes up every year. If I do not turn in my harvest card at the end of the season I have to pay a fine before I can purchase another one for the following season, and yes the state knows because every license that I purchased is done with a swipe of my drivers license and every license holder gets a permanent ID number. Well I can only imagine what you guys are thinking, glad I live in AK. In reality you guys live in a wonderful place but as a seasonal resident I do see the need for changes and one of the biggest changes needs to be a bigger revenue flow to help pay for research in regards to the king salmon decline.
              Not gonna happen here. The prevailing mentality here is myopic/exploitive/extractive/parasitic.

              ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
              I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
              The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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              • #37
                Originally posted by river mist View Post
                SmokeRoss you are know thinking outside of the box and that is what needs to be done. I know it does not pertain to the Kenai but hatchery fish from the Kasilof could be implanted with micro chips, maybe this could be done with juvenile kings in the Kenai before the enter back into the ocean. In the years to follow commercial bycatch could be assessed for possible clues to where these fish spend their lives before returning to their river of origin. Don't tell me this cannot be done because it's done where I live and paid for through an "ocean Enhancement stamp" that is a mandatory part of both sport and commercial licenses. In CA I pay $57.17 for my commercial stamp and $5.97 for my recreational. This money goes to ocean hatchery and research programs. If AK truly wants answers it's going to take money and opening and closing fisheries based upon numbers is not going to solve anything and I do not know why the states managers have not come to this conclusion. It's not an in-river problem it's an out of river problem and it's time to get serious about figuring it out!
                I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that one or more foreign countries have done this already to track our King Salmon in the ocean. Catch a few fish in the salt. Tag them and then release to learn where they go. Doesn't really take a rocket scientist. Although it may take a satellite launched by a rocket scientist to follow them. LOL
                Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by CapnMike View Post
                  Salmon fry/smolt have been injected with coded wire tags for many, many years. Especially hatchery fish. Hatchery fish also have fins clipped, and otoliths marked to identify where and when they came from.
                  That only helps when you catch the fish and chop it's head off to learn where it originated. it doesn't help you track them in the ocean as they migrate. i worked for the State on a coded wire tag project for Coho salmon years ago. i understand how that works.
                  Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by river mist View Post
                    Well maybe it's time to make commercial operators, of all sizes, retain their salmon bycatch and turn to DNA sampling. Use money to put observers on boats to make sure it is done. One thing that is very clear to me is that the cost of a fishing license, resident/non-resident is way to little to manage the waters of a state the size of AK. Time to buck-up, everyone, otherwise fishing is going to keep declining.
                    We won't have observers on foreign vessels in the wide open ocean where our Kings are being intercepted.
                    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      There's a good reason why not much is known about the ocean life of salmon, as real time tracking in the ocean of salmon is pretty much difficult to impossible to accomplish. To do real time tracking, it takes a large device that is only suitable for implantation in larger fish. So implantation in juveniles and smaller fish is out of the question. Microchips, which can be implanted in smaller fish, need a receiver in very close proximity to the fish, a feat that is difficult to impossible to do in the open ocean. That leads to the next problem, that the devices for tracking are so large that it interferes with the normal swimming ability of smaller fish and they get eaten by predators, or simply can not survive the added drag the devices cause. Which leads to the next problem, in that the device must be at/near the surface in order to transmit data to a receiver. And unfortunately, salmon don't spend the majority of their ocean life in that part of the ocean. For those that use a storage/pop-up up to surface device, the data will likely be too old to be of value to a commercial fishing vessel. So no, with current technology a commercial vessel can not track salmon in real time. It's been tried before, with not a lot of success.

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                      • #41
                        What SR said. Nor will foreign vessels collect and retain tags for us.

                        Originally posted by SmokeRoss View Post

                        We won't have observers on foreign vessels in the wide open ocean where our Kings are being intercepted.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
                          Not gonna happen here. The prevailing mentality here is myopic/exploitive/extractive/parasitic.
                          I'm surprised you still live here, I mean, the way you hate the mentality so much. I'm sure you'd be SO much happier in a blue state down south.
                          Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 4merguide View Post

                            I'm surprised you still live here, I mean, the way you hate the mentality so much. I'm sure you'd be SO much happier in a blue state down south.
                            "Here" is a physical place. I choose to live here because I enjoy and respect the place. What I don't appreciate is the selfish, short-sighted, disrespectful, destructive rape and pillage attitude toward the place demonstrated by so many of the residents. (You know, all the people who think they have some divine right to trash the place as they see fit, and believe that anyone who doesn't like it should move somewhere else).
                            ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                            I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                            The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
                              "Here" is a physical place. I choose to live here because I enjoy and respect the place. What I don't appreciate is the selfish, short-sighted, disrespectful, destructive rape and pillage attitude toward the place demonstrated by so many of the residents. (You know, all the people who think they have some divine right to trash the place as they see fit, and believe that anyone who doesn't like it should move somewhere else).
                              Oh, I guess I didn't realize that myopic/exploitive/extractive/parasitic was another way of saying you don't like people that trash the place. My mistake.
                              Last edited by 4merguide; 09-25-2021, 15:23.
                              Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                About the best studies that have been done on the high seas have happened in the last few years, they drop long gillnets and take samples in the middle of the ocean...it's imprecise at best but has some good, if limited data. High seas intercept is a boogeyman that just isn't happening in the quantities required to disrupt runs across the entire range as is being seen. Inshore intercept is happening, is quantifiable, and is a known problem...it's also mostly legal. Hatchery fish are a huge problem, possibly the largest problem in a sea (pun intended) of problems.
                                I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. Physicist ― Richard Feynman

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