Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Board of Fisheries 2019-2020 Proposal Book

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • kidfromgarcia
    replied
    Intriguing but provide the data. it just is not in existence, pol. Call I think it is Taylor in Kodiak the kings counted at weir compared sport take in the river is minuscule the harvest is not above 5% of what came in I do not think ever. They have the tables. When we floated for kings like I said before never saw anyone and when we got to lagoon the game and fish people at cabin at weir were happy to see us because they rarely saw anyone. The cabins at portage prior to the downturn in kings where ramshackle built in territorial days 2 of them slept 8 people 5 in bigger one 2-3 in small one. The portage is not a good area to fish kings dead water. So I do not know where all the lodge people stayed or fished. I stayed in both the cabins during June and for fall steelhead fishing in October - November several times now koniag inc. has them on lock down and has rebuilt them and added one based on what I can see on internet.

    On a different subject does anyone think non resident fish guiding or alien non resident fish guiding should be prohibited this year to prevent spread of the corona virus to Alaska communities? It seems a foregone conclusion that no foreigners will come so if someone travels here from lower 48 do they quarantine for 14 days before they can interact with a guide and people to fish? Or can they ignore self quarantine and go do whatever in our communities? What about halibut charters that’s not much social distancing during the boat ride to the fishing grounds.

    Leave a comment:


  • polardds
    replied
    Kid,

    There was a lodge in Larsen Bay that pumped a lot of people onto that river.

    Leave a comment:


  • kidfromgarcia
    replied
    Originally posted by polardds View Post
    The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.
    Your post intrigued me so much because I use to go there that I looked into it with kodiak fish and game stuff. According to the information the harvest rate on kings in the river was less than 5% before the population when down. I floated Karluk in the 1990’s maybe one trip I saw another group. There use to be a lodge at Karluk lagoon small operator there use to be a French guide who rented the cabin at portage until the landowner kicked him out that was in the 1980’s he left in the 1990’s. No sport harvest hammered the Karluk king please use facts. Thank you

    Leave a comment:


  • polardds
    replied
    They had to put up signs to keep people on trails on the Red/Ayakulik to stop the bank erosion. I am not saying recreational fisherman are soley to blame, the Trawl fisheries do/did not help. We stopped fishing the Karluk due to Native land issues. We did not want to pay for a land use permit when we could fish one river over for free. We stopped fishing the red/Ayakulik when the numbers declined and the river was full of lodge fisherman. We also stopped because my dad liked sleeping in a warm cabin rather than a tent. So we transitioned to the Nushigak. Togiak and Goodnews were just that much further than the Nushigak so we have stayed with the Nush but that river is having its issues now too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cohoangler
    replied
    Originally posted by polardds View Post
    The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.
    It would be unusual for a recreational fishery to drive a stock to low levels, and keep them there for an extended period of time. It would be even more unusual if the habitat remained intact and in good condition, which it is on Kodiak.

    Im not saying recreational angling is blameless, but the level of exploitation needed to drive a stock to really low levels, and keep them there, is very difficult to achieve with recreational angling gear. In part, because recreational angling gear is woefully inefficient (especially mine - LOL) and easy to control/manage by ADF&G, or whoever.

    Also, recall that recreational retention of Chinook on these rivers has been closed for over 15 years. That is more than enough time for these fish to recover from recreational angling.

    I wont speculate on what caused the decline in the Chinook salmon stocks on the Karluk and the Ayakulik, or what continues to keep them from being productive. But the Bering Sea trawl fishery explanation sounds very plausible.

    Leave a comment:


  • fishNphysician
    replied
    Originally posted by polardds View Post
    The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.
    Interesting... any idea of what kind of exploitation rates they put on the in-river return?

    Leave a comment:


  • polardds
    replied
    The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.

    Leave a comment:


  • fishNphysician
    replied
    Originally posted by kidfromgarcia View Post
    Yeah it is not completely dark during all the time of the restriction so not a good reason. Also An example of the uselessness of the regulation undertaking of big government can be found in the fish and game news this week with the releases about closing the formerly great king fishing rivers on kodiak island again for about the 15 years in a row. I was lucky enough to fish these 2 rivers for kings in the late 1980’s early 1990’s and the king has gone away. This is a good example to make the people think and understand that all the regulations the state spends millions in tinkering with do not have the power to help that people making regulations or tinkering with regulations think they do.
    Native Kodiak Island kings all got low holed over the decades in the Bering Sea.... snarfed up in destructive trawl fisheries. They will NEVER recover until those indiscriminate trawl fisheries go away.

    Oh... and all those big beautiful salt kings caught off Kodiak Island by the marine rec fleet? Yeah.... they're low-holing primarily BC... but also Cook Inlet, the Gulf, and the PNW.

    YUP... gettin' low-holed sux balz.

    Leave a comment:


  • kidfromgarcia
    replied
    Originally posted by polardds View Post
    Kid,

    The fishing hour thing was BS in my opinion. Allot of that was wanted by Enforcement. If it was dark they could not see so they wanted to limit the hours people could fish so they could monitor them effectively. (But as I recall allot of our Summer hours are pretty light all day long)
    Yeah it is not completely dark during all the time of the restriction so not a good reason. Also An example of the uselessness of the regulation undertaking of big government can be found in the fish and game news this week with the releases about closing the formerly great king fishing rivers on kodiak island again for about the 15 years in a row. I was lucky enough to fish these 2 rivers for kings in the late 1980’s early 1990’s and the king has gone away. This is a good example to make the people think and understand that all the regulations the state spends millions in tinkering with do not have the power to help that people making regulations or tinkering with regulations think they do.

    Leave a comment:


  • polardds
    replied
    Kid,

    The fishing hour thing was BS in my opinion. Allot of that was wanted by Enforcement. If it was dark they could not see so they wanted to limit the hours people could fish so they could monitor them effectively. (But as I recall allot of our Summer hours are pretty light all day long)

    Leave a comment:


  • kidfromgarcia
    replied
    Originally posted by polardds View Post
    Kid,

    Some of the Valley stream goals were. I do not river fish on the Kenai so I don't pay attention to those numbers.
    The poor matsuvalley salmon runs as a biologist told me are really going to have challenges ahead. Last time I was up there fishing will be the last time I will be up there fishing was 5-6 years ago most of the king salmon I saw or caught are shrunken from 20 pounds of yesteryear down to 8 to 10 pounds or less. Plus you got the fishing hour thing now is that part of the free-enterprise system?

    Leave a comment:


  • polardds
    replied
    Kid,

    Some of the Valley stream goals were. I do not river fish on the Kenai so I don't pay attention to those numbers.

    Leave a comment:


  • kidfromgarcia
    replied
    Originally posted by polardds View Post
    Most of the proposals from the public center around allocation issues. Comfish vs Sport vs PU vs Subsistence. The Department, in my opinion, keeps lowering the Bar on some of their goals to make their numbers look better. I don't remember if it was OEG, or SEG but one can be addressed by proposals and one can't. The BOF passes proposals and then the Department is supposed to figure out how to make it work. Basically the Department is asked whether they feel they can effectively manage the fishery within the confines of the proposals passed.
    What numbers look better?. The goal for spawning Kings was changed by riding from 13,000 to 27,000 to 15,000 to 30,000 big ones so this 15 to 30 was the the same number the goal was a few years back regardless of whether or not they are big so that means there is some more greater number of not so big kings in with the 15,000 just big ones. So you are wrong the bar was not lowered. If you read the escapement goal summary that report Russian river, Kenai reds crooked creek kings goal all went up all the goals went up so I do not know why you say lower just shows how out of tune people are with what the big government is doing.

    Leave a comment:


  • polardds
    replied
    Most of the proposals from the public center around allocation issues. Comfish vs Sport vs PU vs Subsistence. The Department, in my opinion, keeps lowering the Bar on some of their goals to make their numbers look better. I don't remember if it was OEG, or SEG but one can be addressed by proposals and one can't. The BOF passes proposals and then the Department is supposed to figure out how to make it work. Basically the Department is asked whether they feel they can effectively manage the fishery within the confines of the proposals passed.

    Leave a comment:


  • kidfromgarcia
    replied
    Originally posted by MRFISH View Post
    Personally, I think one of the strengths of the process is that that anyone can submit a proposal for consideration. It does add some additional workload but I don't think it's that much.

    Yes, there are always proposals that don't stand a chance, but the Board's committee process does a pretty good job of identifying the ones that have very little or no support and the Board dispatches those pretty quickly.

    As far as reports, the only document that addresses the proposals is the staff comments (RC 2 and 3 for the recent UCI meeting). The rest of the reports would have been prepared regardless of any specific proposal.
    .
    You could try to limit it to no more than 2 or 3 proposals per person/organization, per meeting but there are so many ways around that. Submit the rest of them from your spouse, kids, crew...
    Can I submit a proposal to change the rules about drinking age, traffic, septic systems, federal land laws and a whole lot of other things every couple of years and hold everyone hostage who is involved in those issues. The answer is NO so it should be the same for fishing end of story big government it is a bad system

    Leave a comment:

Footer Adsense

Collapse
Working...
X