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Board of Fisheries 2019-2020 Proposal Book

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  • #16
    Originally posted by kidfromgarcia View Post
    Yeah it is not completely dark during all the time of the restriction so not a good reason. Also An example of the uselessness of the regulation undertaking of big government can be found in the fish and game news this week with the releases about closing the formerly great king fishing rivers on kodiak island again for about the 15 years in a row. I was lucky enough to fish these 2 rivers for kings in the late 1980’s early 1990’s and the king has gone away. This is a good example to make the people think and understand that all the regulations the state spends millions in tinkering with do not have the power to help that people making regulations or tinkering with regulations think they do.
    Native Kodiak Island kings all got low holed over the decades in the Bering Sea.... snarfed up in destructive trawl fisheries. They will NEVER recover until those indiscriminate trawl fisheries go away.

    Oh... and all those big beautiful salt kings caught off Kodiak Island by the marine rec fleet? Yeah.... they're low-holing primarily BC... but also Cook Inlet, the Gulf, and the PNW.

    YUP... gettin' low-holed sux balz.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    The KeenEye MD

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    • #17
      The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by polardds View Post
        The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.
        Interesting... any idea of what kind of exploitation rates they put on the in-river return?
        "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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        The KeenEye MD

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        • #19
          Originally posted by polardds View Post
          The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.
          It would be unusual for a recreational fishery to drive a stock to low levels, and keep them there for an extended period of time. It would be even more unusual if the habitat remained intact and in good condition, which it is on Kodiak.

          Im not saying recreational angling is blameless, but the level of exploitation needed to drive a stock to really low levels, and keep them there, is very difficult to achieve with recreational angling gear. In part, because recreational angling gear is woefully inefficient (especially mine - LOL) and easy to control/manage by ADF&G, or whoever.

          Also, recall that recreational retention of Chinook on these rivers has been closed for over 15 years. That is more than enough time for these fish to recover from recreational angling.

          I wont speculate on what caused the decline in the Chinook salmon stocks on the Karluk and the Ayakulik, or what continues to keep them from being productive. But the Bering Sea trawl fishery explanation sounds very plausible.

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          • #20
            They had to put up signs to keep people on trails on the Red/Ayakulik to stop the bank erosion. I am not saying recreational fisherman are soley to blame, the Trawl fisheries do/did not help. We stopped fishing the Karluk due to Native land issues. We did not want to pay for a land use permit when we could fish one river over for free. We stopped fishing the red/Ayakulik when the numbers declined and the river was full of lodge fisherman. We also stopped because my dad liked sleeping in a warm cabin rather than a tent. So we transitioned to the Nushigak. Togiak and Goodnews were just that much further than the Nushigak so we have stayed with the Nush but that river is having its issues now too.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by polardds View Post
              The Red/Ayakulik and Karluk rivers got hammered by a couple lodges. Yes the trawl fisheries did not help. But those two rivers could never handle the pressure a couple of lodges put on them. They used to be world class rivers. Even catching a few huge steelies on their way out in the Spring. The rivers problem was also that they were a few of the rivers people could actually fly fish decently for Kings in the State. Miss those days.
              Your post intrigued me so much because I use to go there that I looked into it with kodiak fish and game stuff. According to the information the harvest rate on kings in the river was less than 5% before the population when down. I floated Karluk in the 1990’s maybe one trip I saw another group. There use to be a lodge at Karluk lagoon small operator there use to be a French guide who rented the cabin at portage until the landowner kicked him out that was in the 1980’s he left in the 1990’s. No sport harvest hammered the Karluk king please use facts. Thank you

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              • #22
                Kid,

                There was a lodge in Larsen Bay that pumped a lot of people onto that river.

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                • #23
                  Intriguing but provide the data. it just is not in existence, pol. Call I think it is Taylor in Kodiak the kings counted at weir compared sport take in the river is minuscule the harvest is not above 5% of what came in I do not think ever. They have the tables. When we floated for kings like I said before never saw anyone and when we got to lagoon the game and fish people at cabin at weir were happy to see us because they rarely saw anyone. The cabins at portage prior to the downturn in kings where ramshackle built in territorial days 2 of them slept 8 people 5 in bigger one 2-3 in small one. The portage is not a good area to fish kings dead water. So I do not know where all the lodge people stayed or fished. I stayed in both the cabins during June and for fall steelhead fishing in October - November several times now koniag inc. has them on lock down and has rebuilt them and added one based on what I can see on internet.

                  On a different subject does anyone think non resident fish guiding or alien non resident fish guiding should be prohibited this year to prevent spread of the corona virus to Alaska communities? It seems a foregone conclusion that no foreigners will come so if someone travels here from lower 48 do they quarantine for 14 days before they can interact with a guide and people to fish? Or can they ignore self quarantine and go do whatever in our communities? What about halibut charters that’s not much social distancing during the boat ride to the fishing grounds.

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