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Hatchery Humpies affecting king runs?

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  • Hatchery Humpies affecting king runs?

    Looks like a study is showing a link between all the pinks puked out by the hatcheries may be a big part of the reason king runs are suffering. Might be time to dial the hatcheries way back.

    https://biv.com/article/2018/04/paci...w-study-claims
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
    - Jef Mallett

  • #2
    Originally posted by twodux View Post
    Looks like a study is showing a link between all the pinks puked out by the hatcheries may be a big part of the reason king runs are suffering. Might be time to dial the hatcheries way back.

    https://biv.com/article/2018/04/paci...w-study-claims
    This is something i'very pondered and asked. We pump out a ton of pinks and chums in SE and at some point there has to be a critical mass of what can be sustained. People loooove hatcheries but we often learn the consequences years down the road of our interventions. "wild"salmon can't feed the world. I'm not anti commercial at all but as a resident who has taken part end in sport and subsistence fishing I hate seeing everything being guard for commercial and the resident average joe's being left to fight over the scraps.

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    • #3
      Good article.

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      • #4
        Crap article.....paper cited does not look at chinook at all....cub reporter trying to determine causation of a highly complex issue with zero data....this is not helpful stuff.
        "– Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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        • #5
          Hatchery Humpies affecting king runs?

          Originally posted by cdubbin View Post
          Crap article.....paper cited does not look at chinook at all....cub reporter trying to determine causation of a highly complex issue with zero data....this is not helpful stuff.
          Hmmm...guess I read a different article. I don’t hold the writer of it responsible for the study reported on.

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          • #6
            lots of biologists have been saying this for years. Not to mention the billions of chum too. They are raising them so big now wild stocks cannot compete.
            Alaska Wide Open Charters
            www.alaskawideopen.com
            907-965-0130

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gbflyer View Post
              Hmmm...guess I read a different article. I don’t hold the writer of it responsible for the study reported on.
              Really? Allow me to break it down for you....

              A. Catch-all internet news writer discovers scientific study researching abundance of chum, sockeye, and pink salmon. Paper does NOT look at chinook, coho, or steelhead abundance, at all.

              B. Writer interviews random folks involved in fisheries management, advocacy, etc., who all pretty much say, "we don't really know what's going on with kings, but some data would be nice."

              C. Writer attaches sub-headline to article:
              "Canada-Washington state research suggests hatcheries are bolstering pink salmon populations at the expense of chinook, coho"
              This is literally fake news......
              "– Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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              • #8
                Originally posted by cdubbin View Post
                Really? Allow me to break it down for you....

                A. Catch-all internet news writer discovers scientific study researching abundance of chum, sockeye, and pink salmon. Paper does NOT look at chinook, coho, or steelhead abundance, at all.

                B. Writer interviews random folks involved in fisheries management, advocacy, etc., who all pretty much say, "we don't really know what's going on with kings, but some data would be nice."

                C. Writer attaches sub-headline to article:


                This is literally fake news......
                Ok with me. I’ll defer to your expertise.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by gbflyer View Post
                  Ok with me. I’ll defer to your expertise.
                  LMAO that's probably for the best....
                  "– Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cdubbin View Post
                    Really? Allow me to break it down for you....

                    A. Catch-all internet news writer discovers scientific study researching abundance of chum, sockeye, and pink salmon. Paper does NOT look at chinook, coho, or steelhead abundance, at all.

                    B. Writer interviews random folks involved in fisheries management, advocacy, etc., who all pretty much say, "we don't really know what's going on with kings, but some data would be nice."

                    C. Writer attaches sub-headline to article:


                    This is literally fake news......

                    you do realize that this theory has been tossed around by state and federal biologists for decades, right?
                    Alaska Wide Open Charters
                    www.alaskawideopen.com
                    907-965-0130

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 270ti View Post
                      you do realize that this theory has been tossed around by state and federal biologists for decades, right?
                      Spent my life in Alaska, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, and California, bub....if there's a theory on chinook out there, I've heard it....but there's no single smoking gun on what's causing their decline....and feel good, pseudoscientific journalism won't help matters at all.
                      "– Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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                      • #12
                        "Spent my life in Alaska, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, and California, bub....if there's a theory on chinook out there, I've heard it....but there's no single smoking gun on what's causing their decline..."

                        Right, just like anything else it seems likely a combination of different factors like temp, pH, orcas, trawlers, feed, migration patterns, ect. that no one fully understands....except you of course....
                        All I'm saying is it seems foolish to churn out millions (literally) of extra fish of a species and not think that it will have significant consequences on the ecosystem/wild fish/and other species and could be a contributor to the king decline....certainly seems worth exploring IMO....but maybe we should all just defer to you. The inside passage is big but not that big when you plug it full of hatchery fish.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cdubbin View Post
                          Crap article.....paper cited does not look at chinook at all....cub reporter trying to determine causation of a highly complex issue with zero data....this is not helpful stuff.
                          The suppositions of causation were not made by the reporter, but were made by one of the authors of the study.

                          "“While it is good that abundance of sockeye, chum and pink salmon is high, there’s growing evidence that this high abundance, especially pink salmon, is impacting the offshore ecosystem of the North Pacific and Bering Sea,” Ruggerone said."

                          "Ruggerone believes hatcheries are giving pink salmon a competitive edge, at the expense of other species."

                          "“This impact may be contributing to the decline of higher trophic species of salmon, such as chinook salmon, in Alaska. Hatchery salmon are exceptionally abundant now, and contribute to this impact.”"
                          An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
                          - Jef Mallett

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                          • #14
                            One cause, other than competing for the same food, that could be a result of the explosion of hatchery fish is predators. The number of salmon sharks has increased along with the increase in hatchery pinks for instance. And as has been shown, open water net pens have increased the number of sea lice. The same could be happening from the massive amounts of pinks being released. And fish and birds that prey on juvenile salmon could be increasing because of the numbers of fish released by the hatcheries. While the pinks can give good returns due to their sheer numbers, if the increased number of predators showed up in an area where the relatively small numbers of king and coho fry congregated, the mortality rate could quickly become a factor for those two species. It doesn't have to be something as direct as competing for the same food source.

                            As has been shown, hatchery fish cause harm to wild fish of the same species, because hatchery fish can sustain higher harvest rates due to sheer numbers, than can wild fish. When seasons are extended, where mixed stocks are present, to take advantage of the hatchery stocks, it can be a direct harm to wild fish that can't take the extra effort.
                            An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
                            - Jef Mallett

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by twodux View Post
                              One cause, other than competing for the same food, that could be a result of the explosion of hatchery fish is predators. The number of salmon sharks has increased...
                              I can attest to that here in Cook Inlet. The percentage of Chinooks I catch (in the salt) that have been hit by a shark or killer whale has increased exponentially. In my experience, it used to be a rarity. Now it is common place. I caught one last week that looked like it had already been filleted. It bit soft and came in like a lifeless wet noodle.

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