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Kenai ER king escapement objectives... time for a change?

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  • Nerka
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    The idea of an early run and late run Kenai chinook run is not correct. The date of July 1 compromises the data set but more to the point is the idea that there is an early and late run. It is more biologically correct to say tributary spawners and mainstem spawners in the Kenai. Just looking at MSY or Max abundance is based on a false data set. Also the lack of counting for 30 years and creating a new data set is much more of a problem than management concepts of yield. The main problem with the Kenai chinook fishery is that no one wants to sit down and really hash out a management plan and goals that work. My suggestion has been that this fishery should be a pass through fishery and the close lines starts lower in the river than Slikok Creek. Why do we have fishing through out the river? Opportunity drives ADFG and the Board of Fish and users. A large segment of the mainstem spawners was probably eliminated with high exploitations rates during June and July. All the users can argue about who gets to fish and who does not but the facts show over 3 decades this has resulted in a failure. Even today ADFG wants to blame the ocean with in--river issues being ignored. Much easier that way--- to wash your hands of your involvement in the demise. I watched this from inside ADFG and it was not pretty. Biologist who raised valid concerns were overruled with political considerations or plain ignorance.

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  • fishNphysician
    replied
    In hindsight, this is arguably one of the most fact-filled and civil discussions to air out on the Fisheries Management Forum. Thanks to all who participated.

    Lots of historic pearls in this one. For anyone interested in the conservation and recovery of this stock, this thread is a MUST READ.

    So glad we finally turned the corner on the management of ER Kenai kings. Sad that it took til 2017 to finally gitter'dun. Many thanks to former BOF member Robert Ruffner for shepherding the much-needed reforms... the Lorax would be PROUD!

    The only thing missing now is a fecundity-based escapement goal. But hey... we're a helluva lot closer than we were a decade ago

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  • MGH55
    replied
    iceblue: I would love to hear what you feel caused the ER king to fail! What in river actions would you like to see taken to protect the ER kings? The reason I ask for in river actions is because no commercial nets in Cook Inlet have fished ER kings for many many years.

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  • MGH55
    replied
    iceblue, would you tell me how the ER kings are in bad shape, when no gillnets have fished them for as long as I can remember. Why do you have to attack the only groups that have not fished ER kings? You need to lead the charge to stop the in river damage being done to them! What are you willing to give? Do you just want to damage other users, or is it just that you want to use bait? From what I see you need to start pushing hard to limit the number of boats on the river each day, and lower the number of guides on the river killing kings. Just so we all understand you don't have to bonk em on the head to kill a king in the river, you can love them to death with C&R too. Bait or no bait.

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  • fishNphysician
    replied
    Back to refining escapement goals, please...

    These posts from another thread caught my eye...

    Originally posted by Bfish View Post

    With escapement goals and returns, my observation is that you generally get what you aim for. Aim low, get low. High high, get high (too a point of course). Remember way back before Nerka increased the escapement goals and ushered in a new era of tremendous sockeye productivity. Low goals, low returns.

    Originally posted by iceblue View Post
    One only has to look at the ER to see how well lowering the goals based on questionable data works during times of low abundance of King salmon.

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  • MGH55
    replied
    ESSN's and the drift fleet have been restricted over and over just so a other user group gets a higher%. It is never enough just more more more!

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  • MGH55
    replied
    I know that paired restrictions don't work! It is just the war cry from guides on the river, and it gets real old. If they want to fish every day with bait let them. Open it the first of May 1st close it on Dec 31st. Let the guides manage the river, if they let the set nets and drifters fish the days they should Inlet wide Mondays and Thursdays and EO's as needed.
    Originally posted by Nerka View Post
    Paired restrictions are a failed approach and just complicates an already complicated fishery. Another example of where policy developed by non-managers is ill conceived.

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  • Nerka
    replied
    Paired restrictions are a failed approach and just complicates an already complicated fishery. Another example of where policy developed by non-managers is ill conceived.

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  • iceblue
    replied
    Paired restrictions..when restricted to less than full gear (bait) in-River then similar restrictions on gear for ESSN and drifters.

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  • MGH55
    replied
    Paired restrictions....guided fishing on the Kenai only on days Set nets fish!

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  • iceblue
    replied
    Paired restrictions... Set nets south of Blanchard only fish when Kenai nets fish👍

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  • smithtb
    replied
    For the sake of parity, they could make it July 8, when the Kenai setnets start, since that start date was moved back to help pass kings to the river[emoji15]

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  • fishNphysician
    replied
    Originally posted by Funstastic View Post
    So by looking at the Management Plans, it looks like the Early Run in-river sport fishery will be closed (again), and the Late Run will be fair game. Once again we could be left with the issue of harvesting Early Run fish in the Late Run.
    No fishing above the Slikok sanctuary (in effect by emergency order for the past few years) will help to conserve ER fish still lingering in that reach of the mainstem.

    There was a discussion on the other thread about delaying the month-long LR fishery by a week to protect any ER fish still lingering in the mainstem BELOW Slikok. That's an innovative idea that deserves a more thorough fleshing out.

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  • smithtb
    replied
    One thing we know for sure is that more will be harvested if the river is open to bait, and that harvest will be more selective towards females for use of their eggs. Not likely for bait to be open in the ER, since they need to project over the OEG to open that fishery to bait. Possible for the LR, since use of bait is the norm, and allowed any time the midpoint of the escapement is expected to be achieved. In fact if the LR King fishery is not allowed to use bait, management plans require restricting other non-targeted King fisheries.

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  • Derby06
    replied
    Yes there likely will be some early run fish harvested in the late run, but I believe these numbers would be extremely negligible.

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