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2014 Charter Harvest

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  • #46
    Originally posted by 270ti View Post
    It's very obvious from your posts both as grampyfishes and now funtastic that you hold nothing but ill will towards the charter fleet. You were grandfathered into a system where you can now not even fish your own IFQ, but still reap the rewards of the ocean... all while working hard to make it difficult for other Alaskans to make a living. Works out great for you, but not so great for the generations coming up.
    Why the lies? I don't own IFQ (I used to, and fished it myself). I am not grandfathered into anything. You don't even know who I am. I want the best for charters, but I won't condone their overharvests like you. Accusing me of working hard to make it difficult for other Alaskans is...well, irrational and completely over the top.

    270ti, this will be the last time I engage in your personal attacks, or explain myself to you. It is not about me. I have posted my comments based on facts, data, and references. I'm sorry that bothers you. The object is to get charters to meet their harvest limits, rather than find excuses for exceeding them.

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    • #47
      MGH55, the ADFG data (referenced earlier for you) clearly shows the average weight of charter-caught halibut to range from about 12 pounds to 20 pounds (2013-1995).

      You can contact ADFG with your own sampling questions. After all, without any proof, you are the one claiming harvest numbers have been wrong. You are also welcome to stick to your conjecture. However, I will stick to the published science. And again, I would support charters weighing their catch at port.

      To answer your question (which has nothing to do with this discussion), I owned a 35' Matsumoto at G dock/slip. It was used for both charter (deck hand) and long-lining (IFQ holder).

      Here are pictures of typical six-pack catches:



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      • #48
        Do you guys in 3a have any data on how many of the charter customers are residents/military? I was always under the impression quite a few but don't know for sure.

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        • #49
          When I was running my charter from 2004 until 2011 I would say 10% to 15% were military and dependents stationed in Alaska, and 35% to 40% were residents. I had a large number of clients that would do one trip per year to fill up on all the halibut that they would need for the year. I still get calls from people that want to fill their freezers in one trip, and that is harder to do with the new regulations. I do one trip per year to fill my freezer with halibut plus what I catch trolling for kings.

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          • #50
            Funstastic, The ADF&G data show that the halibut sampling done show a range from 12 to 20 pounds of fish that were sampled. Not what the total average of halibut harvested by all charters during that time.




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            • #51
              Originally posted by MGH55 View Post
              When I was running my charter from 2004 until 2011 I would say 10% to 15% were military and dependents stationed in Alaska, and 35% to 40% were residents. I had a large number of clients that would do one trip per year to fill up on all the halibut that they would need for the year. I still get calls from people that want to fill their freezers in one trip, and that is harder to do with the new regulations. I do one trip per year to fill my freezer with halibut plus what I catch trolling for kings.
              Frozen halibut? Gross! Fresh or bust baby and I can get that from the beach!

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              • #52
                I could get fresh too, but gillnetting was slow this year so I have to work some You know how it is when the fishing is good you eat good, and when the fishing is bad you eat fish!

                Originally posted by smithtb View Post
                Frozen halibut? Gross! Fresh or bust baby and I can get that from the beach!

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                • #53
                  Thanks MGH55, good info. Looks like lots of Alaska folks and the good people in our military are getting a nice share of the resource. Makes sense that residents have good access to charters, a lot less boats plugging up the docks or claim jumping one another's honey holes.

                  I operated a charter vessel for 12 years in 2c and also participated in the commercial crab fishery as a crewman. I got out before it was rationalized so I did not get a permit. I'd say the percentage of Alaskans that use a charter service for SE fishing is very low.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by MGH55 View Post
                    I could get fresh too, but gillnetting was slow this year so I have to work some You know how it is when the fishing is good you eat good, and when the fishing is bad you eat fish!
                    Yeah, I get it, and was mostly joking, although I think sometimes too much is made about charters being the poor man's access to halibut (a point taken to the extreme in an article this spring by Mr. Medred). I think it is a recreational opportunity plain and simple - and a great one that should thrive but not at the expense of other fisheries or the resource.

                    I'll shut up now. Have stayed out of this one because I don't know my facts but congratulations people on an informative discussion that for the most part has been all about the facts and aimed at solving problems. Please ignore my trolling and continue

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by smithtb View Post
                      Frozen halibut? Gross! Fresh or bust baby and I can get that from the beach!
                      Says the guy that makes his living selling frozen and canned salmon! Personally, I think that halibut freezes better than salmon due to its lower fat content. Salmon is far better than halibut fresh, but after six months...put the salmon in jars and throw the halibut on the grill! The most important one to eat fresh is sablefish followed by shrimp in my book, but after that comes salmon before halibut.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Brian M View Post
                        Says the guy that makes his living selling frozen and canned salmon! Personally, I think that halibut freezes better than salmon due to its lower fat content. Salmon is far better than halibut fresh, but after six months...put the salmon in jars and throw the halibut on the grill! The most important one to eat fresh is sablefish followed by shrimp in my book, but after that comes salmon before halibut.
                        Interesting. We immediatly can most of the salmon we put up - right after we legally record it. Or cold smoke then can - that stuff will blow your socks off but labor intense. Halibut I usually just eat fresh when possible as I don't like frozen and canned gets pretty dry. Holy crap if you haven't tried canning razor clams do it - super labor intense but ridiculously good. Last year we froze our shrimp in seawater right on the boat and they kept really well.

                        Oh look a pony! Just kidding. Carry on gents.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by MGH55 View Post
                          Funstastic, The ADF&G data show that the halibut sampling done show a range from 12 to 20 pounds of fish that were sampled. Not what the total average of halibut harvested by all charters during that time.
                          ADFG doesn't need a total average harvested by all charters. All they need is a sample large enough to meet scientific goals and provide high accuracy confidence.

                          Biological sample size goals are set for halibut based on the standard sample size equations (Thompson 1992). This, along with surveys, interviews, historical data, and programs like the Southcentral Alaska Halibut Assessment Project, provide more than enough accuracy for management of the stock.

                          Additionally the ADFG weight is not a simple, direct weight like you imply. The data is net weight (headed and gutted), averaged from all sub-areas of area 3A from Homer to Yakutat to Glacier Bay. Additionally, other factors like bias from halibut cleaned at sea (particularly for Homer where the majority of halibut are cleaned at sea) are calculated in. Again, in the end it all provides accuracy.

                          If you still think the weights are a WAG, then I suggest you read some of the evaluations, studies, reports, and peer reviews available from ADFG that clearly explain and scientifically justify the accuracy and precision of the data. They are part of the checks and balances, and are sometimes required by IPC to insure sustainability of the halibut fishery.

                          I asked you to prove your claim that the data is a "guess", and you have not done that. I asked, not to be an a-hole, but because if you are going to suggest charter harvest limits are all wrong because of the data, then we need to be able to show it factually. Otherwise, it's just more emotional scapegoating than at best has done nothing but show 3A charters have been overharvesting more than we knew.

                          Again, I always support more-accurate data, and I support a requirement for charters to have their catch weighed at port. That is the only way harvest accuracy will be 100%. However, current data is not a "guess." 3A Charters did in fact overharvest.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by MGH55 View Post

                            Several problems there...

                            First, that photo was taken long ago when Al Johnson, wife, and daughter were running Homer Ocean Charters with the Sourdough and Sea Witch - probably back in late 1980's - early 1990's...long before GHL or harvest limits existed. I can tell by the old signage (since updated by new owners), not to mention I knew those folks well and I was probably there when the photo was taken.

                            Second, it is not a 6-pack which you eluded to in your posts (nor is the other photo). Count the people and the fish - it is a large charter that typically does those half-day trips you criticized for bringing the weight average down with smaller halibut.

                            Third, I figure the average weight of that catch is 130 pounds - nothing like the typical average catches we see now, or even 10 years ago, or maybe ever. Probably why they took the photo. I see no reason to deceive folks that this represents the data, or a typical catch. Because if it did, last year charters would've harvested 27M lbs instead of 2.5M lbs.

                            You can post pictures of trophy catches till the cows come home. It just shows you are unwilling to post typical catches that dominate the data make-up - anything to fit your conjecture. No thanks, I'll stick to the facts....

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by gbflyer View Post
                              Do you guys in 3a have any data on how many of the charter customers are residents/military? I was always under the impression quite a few but don't know for sure.
                              The latest report available is ADFG Fishery Data Series No. 14-23, Participation, Effort, and Harvest in the Sport Fish Business/Guide Licensing and Logbook Programs, 2013. It was published April, 2014...

                              http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/FedAidpdfs/FDS14-23.pdf

                              Most of the information you are looking for is on pages 18-19. It will show angler effort by region, residency, and species. Participation by charter logbook is on pages 72-74, and 79-80.

                              In Southcentral (most of area 3A), resident angler days for bottom fish were 28,978 and non-resident 88,175 - about 75% non-resident participation. For that effort, residents harvested 48,563 halibut and non-resident harvested 145,211 - about 75% non-resident harvest (page 19).

                              At the port of Homer, where MGH55 chartered, and according to saltwater log book participation (page 73), non-residents made up about 79% of saltwater effort.

                              I excluded comps, crew, and unknown. Military clients are not broken out, and not required to be recorded as military in charter log books. So as far as I know, the closest thing would be actual fishing license sales stats. But they are issued to military as both hunting/fishing, so it would be hard to tell which ones actually fished, and when they did, fished a charter. But to give you an idea, military fishing license sales were less than 0.2% of the total issued...

                              http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/li...s/2013info.pdf

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                              • #60
                                Funstatic, Why would you call me an "a-hole" that is not nice, shame on you! This started with the fact that I am all for what the GHL is, and we need to work from now on with real known numbers just like the longliners do. You are the one tossing cow pies in the air saying that the info used is good enough. I do much better with real numbers. So let's get real. You need to get over your self. It was people like you that let longliner IFQ poundage raise to fast the first few years after IFQ's started. Lets just think about what the halibut stock would be if the the IFQ poundage had never been raised. I think we would not even be having this conversation, because our halibut stock would be in much better shape! If you want to call me an A-Hole, PM me I let you know where to come do it to my face. Have a nice day!

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