OK here is my question. Too many Reds in the Kenai is not good so what about all the pinks flooding in? Why dont they create any problems when they come in by the thousands with over escapement but too many reds is a bad thing. Why do the pinks not cause any problems but too many reds do?
Question on escapement
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Originally posted by smithtb View PostThey spawn in different areas of the drainage.
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Originally posted by Nerka View PostThey have limits also but they also do not rear in freshwater. They go out to sea immediately after emerging from the gravel so they have less competition in river. However, spawning over each other and all the other stuff still applies. There are also limits in the ocean. But overall the lack of freshwater rearing is a big difference.Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly
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I don't necessarily want to provoke a fight but....
As I have said in the past, lots of spawning sockeye aren't a problem. And neither are lots of spawning pinks. The short-term loss of productivity from density dependent mortality is more than offset by the long-term benefit to the Kenai River watershed from marine-derived nutrients. Lots of salmon is good for the ecosystem.
Lots of salmon don't always show up, but when they do, it's a good thing, even if the total number exceeds the capacity of the watershed to sustain the resulting juveniles.
I realize not many folks on this BB agree with me, but I couldn't resist the bait.......
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Originally posted by Cohoangler View PostI don't necessarily want to provoke a fight but....
As I have said in the past, lots of spawning sockeye aren't a problem. And neither are lots of spawning pinks. The short-term loss of productivity from density dependent mortality is more than offset by the long-term benefit to the Kenai River watershed from marine-derived nutrients. Lots of salmon is good for the ecosystem.
Lots of salmon don't always show up, but when they do, it's a good thing, even if the total number exceeds the capacity of the watershed to sustain the resulting juveniles.
I realize not many folks on this BB agree with me, but I couldn't resist the bait.......
One thing that always bugs me about the ecosystem debate is that it is a value judgement by humans. We are part of the ecosystem and have shown we can alter it by huge amounts. But the real question when someone says ecosystem impacts or positive or negative is that it assumes some condition that is wanted for humans. In the Columbia humans choose to have cheap power and water for crops and the resultant ecosystem impacts. Now we want to change or reverse that based on some other values. That is fine but lets be honest about it. We want to change because we now value salmon and want to have both. So ecosystem impacts need to be discussed and considered in management but they usually are always discussed in human impact terms which is just as valid as discussing yield or loss of it. The trick is just defining what one means when they say ecosystem impacts.
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Nerka, it's a fact that the nitrogen fertilizer provided by dead salmon carcasses is a natural part of the ecosystem, including preventing bank erosion by promoting plant growth. I read a biological report years ago from a west coast stream that provided evidence of this. It's all about maximum sustained yield instead of letting natural selection take it's course. I believe the more spawners, the better. Except people would rather have the maximum fish available. It's become all about the best thing for humans, not the best thing for the species and the ecosystems.An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.
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I don't believe too many salmon is bad for the Eco system, but I do believe too many salmon is bad for the salmon. They are like a lot of other species on this earth. When there is too much competition for food and room to live, species are not as healthy as they are when they have more abundant food and room to growResponsible Conservation > Political Allocation
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Somehow the salmon managed to get along fine before we ever started controlling their numbers. Like everything else left alone in nature, they went in cycles. But I bet there were much fewer small fish. And controlling their numbers isn't a natural progression of the species.An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.
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And I also bet there were a less people trying to harvest them also. That is the whole point of managing escapement, to provide decent to good, consistent runs year in and year out. This year is an above average run if reds and look at all the whining, just think what it would be like with bust cycle yearsResponsible Conservation > Political Allocation
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Originally posted by MaximumPenetration View PostNerka, it's a fact that the nitrogen fertilizer provided by dead salmon carcasses is a natural part of the ecosystem, including preventing bank erosion by promoting plant growth. I read a biological report years ago from a west coast stream that provided evidence of this. It's all about maximum sustained yield instead of letting natural selection take it's course. I believe the more spawners, the better. Except people would rather have the maximum fish available. It's become all about the best thing for humans, not the best thing for the species and the ecosystems.
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Originally posted by kgpcr View PostOK here is my question. Too many Reds in the Kenai is not good so what about all the pinks flooding in? Why dont they create any problems when they come in by the thousands with over escapement but too many reds is a bad thing. Why do the pinks not cause any problems but too many reds do?
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