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  • Yukon Cornelius
    replied
    Originally posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Such is life IMHO. My wifes family is from Bristol Bay originally. Most of Her family has chosen to live elsewhere than their home village for many different reasons. One is the lack of good jobs there.
    Many towns and villages in the world have dissappeared over the millenia. Some were but temporary towns setup for a gold rush or timber boom but others just withered away on their own over time.
    I hate to see town/villages go away but that is sometimes how life works.
    That doesn't mean my wife and her family have given up on their native traditions and values though.
    While my wife prefers Yukon river kings over all other salmon we mostly eat Kenai river reds and silvers nowdays. Instead of Bristol bay Halibut and berries we eat Cook Inlet Halibut and southcentral berries.
    We attend native events put on by local Kenai tribes and still listen to the drummers and native singers/dancers.
    We don't live in town though we do have neighbors we can see from our yard.
    Nobody is asking these people to move into downtown Anchorage. But moreso to move to areas where the fish and game is more plentiful for now.
    I know many of Alaskas native poeples were at one time nomadic and moved with the fish and game. That is how they have survived for so many generations.
    You are right. Such is life. Doesn't mean it's the right thing. They did move with the fish and game. Before regulations. But with BIA or Molly Hatchet or whatever it's called changed the nomadic life. I'm with you. I understand te importance of jobs and moving if need be. However each village is different. It sucks for me. I'm an outsider. I can't always speak what's on my mind. Politics. Small village politics. However what I think doesn't keep me from sympathizing.

    i was talking with my friend when word came out that they were shutting down the yukon. He was pissed obviously. I asked if he was surprised. He told me he wasn't but that didn't change the fact that it would be a tight year again.


    Im not going to comment on commercial fishing until I learn a little more about it. All I know is what I hear out here. Which obviously contains false reports.

    Leave a comment:


  • kasilofchrisn
    replied
    Originally posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    I understand the point your trying to make. I truly do. However I think many people that live in the bush choose to live here. It's there culture. It's their life. City living isn't for everyone. I also beeline many of our native children are not prepared for life outside the village. Most live in poverty. Most are offered a substandard education (multiple reasons but it believe main reason is teacher turnover). Many villages are already drying up as the younger ones leave. Subsistence living is a survival necessity for many villagers.
    Im honest. I don't break the rules. However there are times I can sympathize. I may not support. But I do understand.
    Mid like to see the problems fixed. Which restrictions and closings might be the way. But they are only temporary fixings.
    Such is life IMHO. My wifes family is from Bristol Bay originally. Most of Her family has chosen to live elsewhere than their home village for many different reasons. One is the lack of good jobs there.
    Many towns and villages in the world have dissappeared over the millenia. Some were but temporary towns setup for a gold rush or timber boom but others just withered away on their own over time.
    I hate to see town/villages go away but that is sometimes how life works.
    That doesn't mean my wife and her family have given up on their native traditions and values though.
    While my wife prefers Yukon river kings over all other salmon we mostly eat Kenai river reds and silvers nowdays. Instead of Bristol bay Halibut and berries we eat Cook Inlet Halibut and southcentral berries.
    We attend native events put on by local Kenai tribes and still listen to the drummers and native singers/dancers.
    We don't live in town though we do have neighbors we can see from our yard.
    Nobody is asking these people to move into downtown Anchorage. But moreso to move to areas where the fish and game is more plentiful for now.
    I know many of Alaskas native poeples were at one time nomadic and moved with the fish and game. That is how they have survived for so many generations.

    Leave a comment:


  • kasilofchrisn
    replied
    Originally posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    Yep. Commercial and by catch. I'm not sure of all regulations but it seems that commercial fishing is still going but not subsistence. Why is this? I'm ok with restricting, but shouldn't we restrict all king fishing? Or does it have to do with spawning vs non spawning?
    Ok could you be more specific when you say commercial fishing?
    Yes there may be a troll fishery for kings going on in SE Alaska but those fish are presumably not Yukon river fish.
    I know they do have a general idea where some of the fish they catch originate. Granted it isn't exact science.
    But subsistence users are by law the last ones to be shut down. So if there is a commercial fishery going on in direct regards to Yukon river kings Subsistence user will not be shut down. Subsistence users are the last to be shut down as Nerka already pointed out in previous posts.

    Leave a comment:


  • smithtb
    replied
    Roger that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yukon Cornelius
    replied
    Originally posted by smithtb View Post
    Or it could mean the difference between living in the bush and moving to a place where food, energy, and housing are more affordable and jobs more abundant.

    Unfortunately for that elder, he was a criminal because he chose not to follow the laws of our government. The same government that spends hundreds of millions on state/federal subsidies for food, fuel, waste and water treatment, ultra high speed internet, roads and so on for the AK bush. Perhaps someone should explain to that elder that he cannot choose not to follow our laws simply because it doesn't suit him.

    Not trying to diminish anyone's way of life, but rules are rules.
    I understand the point your trying to make. I truly do. However I think many people that live in the bush choose to live here. It's there culture. It's their life. City living isn't for everyone. I also beeline many of our native children are not prepared for life outside the village. Most live in poverty. Most are offered a substandard education (multiple reasons but it believe main reason is teacher turnover). Many villages are already drying up as the younger ones leave. Subsistence living is a survival necessity for many villagers.
    Im honest. I don't break the rules. However there are times I can sympathize. I may not support. But I do understand.
    Mid like to see the problems fixed. Which restrictions and closings might be the way. But they are only temporary fixings.

    Leave a comment:


  • smithtb
    replied
    Originally posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    If the salmon are allowed to be caught it could mean the difference between nourishment and lack of.

    I heard an elder once say that he was a criminal because politicians made it a crime for him to feed his family.
    Or it could mean the difference between living in the bush and moving to a place where food, energy, and housing are more affordable and jobs more abundant.

    Unfortunately for that elder, he was a criminal because he chose not to follow the laws of our government. The same government that spends hundreds of millions on state/federal subsidies for food, fuel, waste and water treatment, ultra high speed internet, roads and so on for the AK bush. Perhaps someone should explain to that elder that he cannot choose not to follow our laws simply because it doesn't suit him.

    Not trying to diminish anyone's way of life, but rules are rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yukon Cornelius
    replied
    What is the common belief about subsistence fishing? Anyone have any idea what impact the subsistence fishing has on the kings?
    someome mentioned earlier that it will truly take a combined effort to save the yukon king.
    We are all guilty of pointing at the others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yukon Cornelius
    replied
    Originally posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Can you elaborate on this?
    Are you saying that they are commercially catching Yukon river kings yet subsistence users are shut out? Where is this occuring?
    One can only guess you mean the commercial Trawl fleet and the bycatch issue?
    Yep. Commercial and by catch. I'm not sure of all regulations but it seems that commercial fishing is still going but not subsistence. Why is this? I'm ok with restricting, but shouldn't we restrict all king fishing? Or does it have to do with spawning vs non spawning?

    Leave a comment:


  • Yukon Cornelius
    replied
    Originally posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Do you honestly believe your students will not survive if they cannot catch and eat some Yukon river kings?
    I do know that in my household when we do not have something in our freezer that we want to eat we eat something else.
    Last year my boat had mechanical problems. That means no Subsistence Halibut (my wife and stepson are Native with SHARC cards)in our freezer.
    So we ate more Salmon,ducks, wild berries and other foods which we had more of.
    My guess that is what all native people have done/will do in times of shortage. My guess is that this is not the first time a salmon run in Alaska has been late or was not there in sufficient numbers to allow consumptive users to harvest all they needed/wanted of them.
    Yet Alaska's native people still perservere.
    They persevere. On moose. There are some other game but the staple here is moose and salmon. The kings have been restricted for the last two years that I know of. Problem the last two years is that the chum ran at same time. I guess the difference between road and bush is the cost to get good out here. So I will say yes. If the salmon are allowed to be caught it could mean the difference between nourishment and lack of.

    I heard an elder once say that he was a criminal because politicians made it a crime for him to feed his family.

    Leave a comment:


  • smithtb
    replied
    Originally posted by Nerka View Post
    tbsmith, if I use your reasoning the drift gill net fleet should be using outboard motors, the set nets limited to the beach, and airplanes and cell phones not used to communicate between fisherman and where the fish are. Also, monofilament gear is gone.
    Um, not exactly.

    I did not suggest that subsistence users shouldn't be able to utilize technology, although I think most reasonable people agree that increased harvest efficiency should lead to decreased opportunity in a limited resource - for commercial, sport, and subsistence users alike. It certainly has in the commercial fisheries you mentioned, but not so much in the inriver fisheries nearby...

    I was responding to someone else's implication that since this Yukon subsistence fishery has occurred for many years, its impacts - more specifically the impacts of illegal activity - are de minimis or should somehow be ignored, or that those users have a right to fish that supersedes the needs of the resource.

    Had I been arguing that UCI commercial fishermen have been harvesting for over a century, so they should be left alone to harvest (legally or illegally) without their impacts being considered, your above reasoning and points would be perfectly relevant. But I wasn't and they are not.

    Leave a comment:


  • kasilofchrisn
    replied
    Originally posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    As an outsider, it sucks that the Native population can't fish while the commercial fishers can. It's all about money it seems.
    Can you elaborate on this?
    Are you saying that they are commercially catching Yukon river kings yet subsistence users are shut out? Where is this occuring?
    One can only guess you mean the commercial Trawl fleet and the bycatch issue?

    Leave a comment:


  • kasilofchrisn
    replied
    Originally posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    Every student I have depends on Salmon. It is not a money making issue, it is a survival issue.
    Do you honestly believe your students will not survive if they cannot catch and eat some Yukon river kings?
    I do know that in my household when we do not have something in our freezer that we want to eat we eat something else.
    Last year my boat had mechanical problems. That means no Subsistence Halibut (my wife and stepson are Native with SHARC cards)in our freezer.
    So we ate more Salmon,ducks, wild berries and other foods which we had more of.
    My guess that is what all native people have done/will do in times of shortage. My guess is that this is not the first time a salmon run in Alaska has been late or was not there in sufficient numbers to allow consumptive users to harvest all they needed/wanted of them.
    Yet Alaska's native people still perservere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yukon Cornelius
    replied
    This will only be my third fishing season out here. Every year it has been worse than the year before. I'm all for protecting the Kings, however I believe we need to close down all king fishing.

    Every student I have depends on Salmon. It is not a money making issue, it is a survival issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yukon Cornelius
    replied
    Originally posted by Anythingalaska View Post
    Good, it should be closed. I can only imagine how many Kings will be poached by villagers and others.
    Believe it or not...not that many. I've talked to fishermen in three villages on the Yukon. They won't put nets out until after the kings run...It sucks, b/c often times other Salmon run at same time.

    As an outsider, it sucks that the Native population can't fish while the commercial fishers can. It's all about money it seems.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nerka
    replied
    Originally posted by smithtb View Post
    Same group of people, however their population has increased exponentially and they have incorporated modern technology and efficiency into their traditional harvest methods. Big difference. Their ancestors didn't have outboards, cell phones, or monofilament gear.
    tbsmith, if I use your reasoning the drift gill net fleet should be using outboard motors, the set nets limited to the beach, and airplanes and cell phones not used to communicate between fisherman and where the fish are. Also, monofilament gear is gone.

    I think every fishery has improved with technology so one should not pick out one group to make a point. The subsistence fishery has a priority use. Notice the word use not users. So restrictions in the commercial fishery or sport fishery are to take place before the subsistence fisheries are to be impacted. Asking about by-catch is a good point to help define the harvestable surplus and who gets it given the State and Federal priorities for subsistence use.

    One issue that keeps coming up is the issue of goals and specifically sustainable management goals. At some point all users need to be shut down but where that point falls is open to debate. In mixed stock fisheries there is always tension between goals for the different stocks of fish. In the Yukon they have treaty obligations that need to be met which further complicates the issue. I am not saying subsistence uses should happen regardless of run size - that would be a fools game - just that defining thresholds is very complicated.

    Leave a comment:

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