question for the C-180 guys

[algonquin]

I've been in debates with a few friends and the topic is Wheel landings Vs. three point and when to put the tail down on a wheel landing. Both in the bush and gravel strips/ hard surface. Also what speeds do you use.
I like wheel landings, but also like to put the tail on the ground as it slows if the wind is swirling or fairly strong x/w. (Below aprox. 20). your thoughts gentlemen.

[Grizzly 1]

I've been in debates with a few friends and the topic is Wheel landings Vs. three point and when to put the tail down on a wheel landing. Both in the bush and gravel strips/ hard surface. Also what speeds do you use.
I like wheel landings, but also like to put the tail on the ground as it slows if the wind is swirling or fairly strong x/w. (Below aprox. 20). your thoughts gentlemen.

Normally, you would hold the tail off with forward elevator. It will quit flying when it's ready. If you want to lower the tail earlier in the landing, you'd best practice to find the best airspeed for that.

Your C-180 will not have the same empty weight as the next one at the airport, and your loads will vary. My recommendation is for you to figure the proper airspeed on your own.

You should get better directional control in the winds you mention if you will utilize the wheel (power) landings. An experienced C-180 driver SHOULD be able to stop just as short as when using 3-point, full-stall landings.

Mr. Pid should chime in here . . . . .

[AGL4now]

I've been in debates with a few friends and the topic is Wheel landings Vs. three point and when to put the tail down on a wheel landing.

At one point I owned both PA-18-150 & C-180 at the same time and I had both set-up with 26" Airstreaks & 10" Tail wheel. I personally have never chose wheel landings unless landing into a steady stiff wind. I always come in high, and "slip" down, then kick it straight, and nail the tail as soon as possable, even on steep beaches I do this, then add power to up the tail just a bit for taxi.

[Mr. Pid]

Griz gives me too much credit but I like the topic so I will chime in. I use tail low wheel landings 99% of the time. Airspeeds are reasonably slow, visibility is better, rudder authority is better, go-around configuration is better, and my own ability to hit my spot is better. Day in and day out I have good control and can stop plenty short enough for any strip I need to use. On a good weather day and with enough space in front of me I'll leave the flaps out and keep the tail up until it gently drops as the speed slows. In crosswinds or gusty conditions I'll retract flaps at touch down. That loads the mains and drops the tail and allows me to use brakes more aggressively. The only time I use three point landings are for soft field technique on skis in deep snow or when trying to land as short as I can on tires. A steep final leg with full flaps and minimum speed to a three point landing will get me the shortest landings I'm capable of. I don't need it but I like to practice it. It reminds me of how slow my 180 can fly down the final leg.

[goosepilot]

Griz gives me too much credit but I like the topic so I will chime in. I use tail low wheel landings 99% of the time. Airspeeds are reasonably slow, visibility is better, rudder authority is better, go-around configuration is better, and my own ability to hit my spot is better. Day in and day out I have good control and can stop plenty short enough for any strip I need to use. On a good weather day and with enough space in front of me I'll leave the flaps out and keep the tail up until it gently drops as the speed slows. In crosswinds or gusty conditions I'll retract flaps at touch down. That loads the mains and drops the tail and allows me to use brakes more aggressively. The only time I use three point landings are for soft field technique on skis in deep snow or when trying to land as short as I can on tires. A steep final leg with full flaps and minimum speed to a three point landing will get me the shortest landings I'm capable of. I don't need it but I like to practice it. It reminds me of how slow my 180 can fly down the final leg.

Thats exactly how I feel about the subject

[TBLOOMA]

i agree with mr pid. But practice, practice practice is key to all this. 180/185 can get in and out of some pretty short places with a respectable load, but practice with the above techniques with different loads.

[algonquin]

Thanks guys, Mr.Pid summed up what I try to do. Doesn't always work, but the effort is there.

[AGL4now]

Side Bar question: Anyone own N7702K

[BeaverDriver]

One other item of consideration might be rocks. Some of the strips with bigger loose rocks might be better suited for a wheel landing (all other safety things such as wind, X-wind etc. considered) just to avoid the larger rocks that could get kicked up into the Horizontal stab when the mains touch down in a tail low or three point landing.

I have seen a few Horizontal Stabs in pretty rough shape and an annual done IAW the Cessna skin damage limits doesn't usually allow much in the way of dents. Just some food for thought.

[algonquin]

The rocks are still very intimating to me. I'm still putting the GAR- Aero set up together for the plane. Just for a laugh, a quick side line:I bought a set of G/A mains, 29's and tailwheel set up off a Fedex retiring Capt. who was moving to mexico. Sight unseen I set him a check with the assurance they were ready to put on and go. Well I don't want to call the guy a liar but ' after replacing the tires, all 3, bearings,seals, tube's, bearing races,tailwheel bearing retainers, grease seals etc.etc. it would have been cheeper to just buy everything new. Seems the main rims were the only thing that were reuseable.
Anyway next month I should have the set done and on the plane, then I'll start learning the big tire landings. I'm glad that what I'm doing is in line with the general line of thought here. I was thinking I was the one messing up after the discussions with my friends. After two pacers T/W on the ground was the way to stop short and control the plane when you started to slow and lose the rudder, just didn't know how much transfered. I'm a believer in ask the pro's in the field you want to play in. Thanks again guys

[Monguse]

From the FAA N-number data base:

N7702K Aircraft Serial Number : 18052705 Aircraft Manufacturer : CESSNA Model : 180J Engine Manufacturer : CONT MOTOR Model : I0-470 SERIES Aircraft Year : 1976 Owner Name : ROSE HUGH S Owner Address : 620 YAK RD FAIRBANKS, AK, 99709-2407 Type of Owner : Individual Registration Date : 22-Oct-2007 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard Approved Operations : Normal