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BOG Approves nonres moose hunt in 16B - talk about stirring emotions!

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  • The justification is there for more bull harvests...

    ...because the high bull:cow ratio means that those extra bulls that aren't needed for breeding are taking up/influencing range from the cows and new cohorts. And we can't stockpile them. The whole idea is to have more recruitment, more calves born to more cows and less calf predation.

    But to me, I guess all along I have questioned just what group or groups were supposed to benefit from this "whole idea," and when/how soon.

    What further complicates things, if you look at the most recent report ADFG issued in their proposal to reauthorize the control programs in Unit 16B, it states that "the harvestable surplus for 2010 is 508 bulls." (And I was told that this year, 2011, we are700 bulls over the mgmt objective that calls for 20-25 bulls:100 cows )

    Guess what the Intensive Management harvest objective is. It is 310-600 moose. So even the 2010 data states that we are smack dab in the middle of the IM harvest objective.

    ADFG explains this high harvestable surplus of bulls thusly: "This number is a reflection of the bull to cow ratios that have been above objective for several years, likely due to the limited resident-only harvest since 2001 and higher bull survival due to wolf predation control since 2005."

    All this leads one to wonder just what in hell we are really doing and why in 16B. If the bull:cow ratios have been above objective for several years, and the harvestable surplus since 2009 was well above the ANS to allow for a resident and nonres hunt, why was the area not opened to more resident hunting a couple years back? Why did we keep limiting the resident harvest until suddenly this becomes a matter of "hey we got too many dang bulls out there fellas, you can't harvest them all, we're gonna go ahead and expand the fall resident season for you and we're gonna allow unlimited number of nonresident hunters to participate too."?

    I can grasp the nuances involved in trying to decrease calf predation and boost recruitment, and also having a bull:cow ratio that is out of whack that also needs to be dealt with. But even so a whole lot of this just doesn't add up to me. Certainly it's debatable whether or not we really needed to institute brown bear snaring and baiting right now when ADFG claims that recruitment is indeed up and the moose are expanding and we now have a surplus of bulls that is over the dang IM harvest objective.

    Go figure,
    Mark Richards
    www.residenthuntersofalaska.org

    Comment


    • I talked to the bio from Palmer this afternoon, we didn't get to talk long but I did ask about brown bear snaring & baiting. That is being done by ADFG in one of the big calving areas south of our place. Black bear snaring is open to anyone after you take ADFG bear snaring class. You can call the Palmer office and ask to talk to the bio in charge of the black bear snaring program. I didn't get to talk much about the moose season but he did tell me they did a survey last fall and the bull/cow ratio is 50 to 100, they would like to get it down to 25 to 30 bulls to 100 cows.

      I'm still not thrilled about a non-resident season but they do need to get the bull/cow ratio fixed. I just think residents should be the ones to do it.
      Chuck

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      • Yawn this thread bores me now....

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 323 View Post
          Yawn this thread bores me now....
          That'll happen when people start throwing out meaningless numbers everytime...Ever watch the BOG Members eyes start glassing over when the numbers start being cast out?
          "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
          ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

          Comment


          • So there's enough moose to have a non res season, a general season hunt, and subsistence hunts, yet we need to snare bears as well?

            Someone has some explaining to do. Bunch of bullschit being told by somebody. I'd like to know who.
            "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

            Comment


            • Coal mine coming to a unit near you

              I have hunted unit 16B for 30 years. I spent 3 weeks in February in the unit. I did not see an abundance of bulls. I wonder where they get their numbers. If they do a survey from an airplane in the winter, how can they distinguish between bulls and cows. On the ground at 100 yards with binoculars I have a hard time telling.

              Is it possible that Gov Parnell wants to open the area to coal mining and his first step is to wipe out the remaining game populations.

              Only then can he keep his promise not to trade one resource for another. I wonder if the Hunt brothers or PacRim Coal gave to his campaign.

              Just saying...
              Live life and love it
              Love life and live it

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bullbuster View Post
                If they do a survey from an airplane in the winter, how can they distinguish between bulls and cows.campaign.
                They did it last fall
                Chuck

                Comment


                • Originally posted by bullbuster View Post
                  I have hunted unit 16B for 30 years. I spent 3 weeks in February in the unit. I did not see an abundance of bulls.
                  Just saying...
                  16B is a very large unit. Just wondering...When you spent that 3 weeks over there; How many Bears, Sheep, Caribou, Wolves and Yotes did you see?
                  Point being...because you didn't see them...doesn't mean they don't exist. There are indeed valley's there that hold large numbers of large bull moose...this I know. I also know there are vast regions in the unit, that hold 0 bulls.
                  They are just like people...they congregate in certain locale's. Go to Lake Creek/Skwentna you will find people, go to the middle and upper reaches of Lake Creek and Hayes for example...well...not so much. It is a very diverse unit and that is why so must angst exist over the I/M Project...I have to think all the Haters out there...not you...simply don't understand the game population dynamics and concentrations. They don't understand that I/M is focused in a very small geographic region...having absolutely nothing at all to do with the remainder of the unit. I have reason to suspect that where you spent your 3 weeks is very likely under the current I/M Process.
                  Just Sayin' :wink:
                  "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
                  ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pike_palace View Post
                    So there's enough moose to have a non res season, a general season hunt, and subsistence hunts, yet we need to snare bears as well?

                    Someone has some explaining to do. Bunch of bullschit being told by somebody. I'd like to know who.
                    It sounds hinky on the face but if the total number of moose is below management goals there can still be a large harvestable surplus of bulls.

                    The population should have a stable 25% bulls left after about 500 are taken annually from what I understand of the units management goal. Lets say that the goal for moose in the area is 10,000 with 2500 of those being bulls after hunting season is over (I don't have the exact numbers but these make math easier). This would be ideal per the management goal but instead we have 5000 moose and 2500 are bulls. Those "extra" bulls are not helping the overall herd, they are just consuming resources that are needed to feed calves. To get to down to just a 30% bull cow ration we would have to harvest 1000 bulls so despite there being too few moose we still have too many bulls and thus a significant harvestable surplus. The 25-30% is all that is needed to breed all the remaining 2500 cows without having "extras" around consuming biomass and not contributing. We are however still well short of the 10,000 animal goal so we need to increase calf recruitment and thus continue with predator control since they have been shown to the be limiting factor.

                    Comment


                    • Yup...
                      Todays Calves are Tomorrows Legends.
                      "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
                      ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Akres View Post
                        Yup...
                        Todays Calves are Tomorrows Legends.
                        No moose, Left behind act, 2011.
                        squab (probably of Scandinavian descent; skvabb, meaning "loose, fat flesh") is a young domestic pigeon or its meat

                        Comment


                        • I disagree

                          Originally posted by squab View Post
                          No moose, Left behind act, 2011.
                          If indeed its reminiscent of the existing school act now in force, in would in face leave many moose behind, all due to a pretty lame name given to the act.

                          Same reason no could vote for our two bridges after their name became "to nowhere".

                          Comment

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