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Remington Premier A-Frame

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  • Remington Premier A-Frame

    I have been looking at the ballistics of this round for 338 win mag 225 gr for a moose hunt and black bear and something dose not look right. On the Remington site it says that the bc of the swift a frame is .337 but on the swift a frame site it is .384. Another thing wrong with the ballistics it says that at 300 yards the speed is down to 1800 fps that to me seems to low so i set the stats of that round exact same round same speed bc from the Remington site and i saw that at 300 yards the speed is up to 2000 fps.

    aside from this what dose AF stand for in bullet shaps ex. rn= round nose fb= flat bass... and from what i now of bullet terminal performance is on a lung shot bullet fragmentation causes more lung damage so a quicker kill, since the swift a frame keeps on average 95% weight so the a frame would not be optimal for that kind of shot? would the swift a frame expand in medium game since black bear is listed as medium game.

  • #2
    I can't tell you all of the ballistic info you're asking about - all I can say is the 225 grain Swift A Frame out of a .338 has worked for me on moose, caribou, and wolf. Distances ranging from 125 yards on the wolf, to about 300 on the caribou.

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    • #3
      I think the A-frame would work great for both your moose and black bear. If you want a bullet that is going to fragment you should go with a nosler partition. A bonded bullet like the A-Frame, Scirocco, Federal TBT, etc. is going to retain its weight like you mentioned. This is ideal, if on the way to the lungs, you pass though some ribs or shoulder.

      I have taken a black bear with a 225 A-Frame and it demolished him, but the bullet passed through so I couldn't see what it looked like. I have seen them come out of moose and brown bears and they look great, solid weight retention and expansion.

      Looking in my Swift book, the 300 yard velocity ranges from 1958 to 2264.

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      • #4
        bc is something i've never seen moose question or bears for that matter...nor have i seen them discuss an extra 200 fps gain or loss...its fun to play with gear, but don't over think what your trying to do. killing an animal is not like building a rocket...you can be off a few measurments and still get the job done!
        Www.blackriverhunting.com
        Master guide 212

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        • #5
          Killed lot's of stuff with 225gr A-Frames. They retain weight and expand well.. Very good Bullet! Don't worry about the BC/FPS numbers so much. But, How well does your gun Shoot them? Like BRWNBR said, "This ain't Rocket Science".. Find a good bullet that your gun likes.

          I prefer X's. TSX and TTSX's actually. My guns LIKE them! But, I roll my own nowadays..

          Pretty sure "AF" stands for A-Frame.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BRWNBR View Post
            bc is something i've never seen moose question or bears for that matter...nor have i seen them discuss an extra 200 fps gain or loss...its fun to play with gear, but don't over think what your trying to do. killing an animal is not like building a rocket...you can be off a few measurments and still get the job done!
            The moose will notice the 200 fps because it extends your range buy 100 yards.

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            • #7
              luiss,
              I think what you will find is the number of animals taken and the number of hunters with the shooting skills needed to take them at the far end of the bullets power range is pretty small. We all would like to be the "sniper" that can shoot the ears off a tick at 1000 yards but that's not real life.
              Basically the A Frame denotes a structure design that resembles an A and is solid and proven performer on big game. You won't go wrong using it if your gun likes it and shoots it accurately.
              I believe you can safely assume 90% of moose are shot under 200 yards and this bullet will work well for you at that range and beyond.
              When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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              • #8
                luisss, you got smart moose where you live i guess.
                Www.blackriverhunting.com
                Master guide 212

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                • #9
                  Pretty sure that all this mumbo jumbo ballistic crap is just, well, crap.

                  Holes in lungs and hearts make kills. Nuff said.
                  "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by luisss View Post
                    The moose will notice the 200 fps because it extends your range buy 100 yards.
                    You are thinking luiss when you should be doing more shooting IMO. There is no doubt that greater velocity with the same bullet will increase the maximum effective range, however the actual distance of that effect is vastly overrated in ballistics charts. I suggest that you buy as much ammo as you can afford (I'd choose something like 225 grain Remington Core-Lokts--they are much less expensive) and shoot your 338 WM as often as possible. That will do more to increase your effective range than an additional 500 fps.
                    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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                    • #11
                      It's ok Luisss those who nock ballistics are those who don't understand it. And to be a good shooter you must understand at least the basics. Keep doing what you do.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bravo4hunter View Post
                        It's ok Luisss those who nock ballistics are those who don't understand it. And to be a good shooter you must understand at least the basics. Keep doing what you do.
                        Discerning the impact of B.C. variation of less than .050 is well beyond the basics. As some of us move beyond the basics of ballistics there comes the realization that atmospheric conditions will contribute more effect to the external ballistics than such a nonsensical B.C. difference. Reading ballistics charts and extrapolating data from various formulas & computer programs is fun and can be helpful (minimally IME), but real world shooting ALWAYS trumps arm chair ballistics--basic or advanced.

                        FWIW--comparing similar launch speeds (I used 2800 fps) the variation in B.C. that luiss cites, .337 & .384, yields something less than .5 inch difference in trajectory at 300 yards. Read the charts, work the formulas, but trust what your targets prove in the field...

                        You've gotta have trigger time for shooting at longer ranges; IME there is no substitute.
                        Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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                        • #13
                          i understand balistics, but just don't feel like thats what kills them. projectile thru vitals is what kills them. be it a arrow, spear or bullet with a pathetic BC or one with an incredible BC...they'll both make them dead.
                          ballistics are great fun on paper,but often times don't translate well to field conditions...thats all i'm getting at. never seen an animal that was lost due to a lack of BC....but shot placement....
                          as 1cor said..trigger time, trigger time.
                          Www.blackriverhunting.com
                          Master guide 212

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by luisss View Post
                            The moose will notice the 200 fps because it extends your range buy 100 yards.
                            Look at it this way brother - that extra 100 yards translates to 7-8 packloads of 75-100 pounds apiece, for 100 extra steps over uneven terrain...better to call him closer, as opposed to shooting him farther away. Once you pack one moose for any distance over a few hundred yards, you'll appreciate getting them as close as you can.

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                            • #15
                              I exclusively use A-Frames now in my 300 RUM and 8mm mag (200 grainers) and I use the 300 grain A-Frame in my 375. I know two different hunters that have killed Cape Buffalo 1 shot kills with the 375 300 grain A-Frame and both recovered the bullets under the skin on the far side of the shot. Broken shoulders, incinerated lungs, and 95% weight retention. Simply can't beat that. The last moose I killed was with my 8mm mag with the 200 grain A-Frame and the damage was simply amazing. Small entrance, small exit, not a single piece of lung bigger than a quarter. Pure jelly. A-Frames are the only bullets I use in my rifles when it comes to hunting.
                              An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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