This ought to stir up some emotions

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Labman post 22, why does that bother you, would you rather see them killed and nobody wins, you guys kill me. There is a chance another Delta herd could be born, but it won't have a chance if people ar'nt behind it. Hey vote against it and you will never know what could have been.

    Comment


    • #47
      Squab, the bison in Delta have a range of about 50 square miles, the wood bison are/should be released about 400 miles north. Gezz give them a chance people.

      There was a topic on the P/R thread before it was shut down about the people from the villages moving to the city because of the resorcess, Hey give them a chance to make this work. And to the one that said the Browse would'nt support both species, get a clue.

      I should'nt post on these topics, gets my blood presure up.:mad:

      Comment


      • #48
        This is a no brianer.

        Learn the facts people.....Bushrat has it right. This is a win win. Shame they aren't going to be put in the Yukon Flats.

        Get behind this and contact your reps.

        Steve

        Comment


        • #49
          The ESA label on these Bison is a HUGE deal! That title needs to go away, before they can ever be released! Or else we're all screwed.. Forever. Our(USA) ESA Laws prevent importing or killing Animals that are on "our" list. Don Young has been trying to allow the Importation of legally killed Canadian Polar Bears for YEARS!! Because they are ESA animals HERE, they cannot be imported. If these Bison get released without the Law being changed. They will just be another Endangered population that is off-limits to everyone.

          Now, where did I put my Tin-Foil hat..???..

          Comment


          • #50
            You guys have a lot of faith in the ESA, and you sure put a whole lot of trust in the anti-hunting, eco-nazi groups like Defenders of Wildlife. Sure a 10j listing helps, but that is by no means a slam dunk. Just look at the wolf re-introduction in the northern Rockies if you want a perfect example of how it can turn into a train wreck. They're a 10j, non-essential, experimental population. They reached their de-listing threshold a decade ago, and their current population is 6 times the original de-listing population. Yet they're still listed on the ESA because groups like Defenders of Wildlife, Center for Biological Diversity, HSUS, and a whole heap of other bunny huggers will sue to no end to keep any species listed that they can. They'll say it won't be a problem, until the gates open up and the animals get turned loose, and then the lawsuits are on. Right now the State of Alaska holds all of the cards, and there's no reason to give an opportunity for another lower 48 wolf fiasco. I'd like to see wood bison released as much as anyone, and I'd really like to see them go to the Yukon Flats because that's where they have the best potential, but rushing them out while they're still listed is a really bad idea...unless you're an attorney looking for employment.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Jeff Shannon View Post
              You guys have a lot of faith in the ESA, and you sure put a whole lot of trust in the anti-hunting, eco-nazi groups like Defenders of Wildlife. Sure a 10j listing helps, but that is by no means a slam dunk. Just look at the wolf re-introduction in the northern Rockies if you want a perfect example of how it can turn into a train wreck. They're a 10j, non-essential, experimental population. They reached their de-listing threshold a decade ago, and their current population is 6 times the original de-listing population. Yet they're still listed on the ESA because groups like Defenders of Wildlife, Center for Biological Diversity, HSUS, and a whole heap of other bunny huggers will sue to no end to keep any species listed that they can. They'll say it won't be a problem, until the gates open up and the animals get turned loose, and then the lawsuits are on. Right now the State of Alaska holds all of the cards, and there's no reason to give an opportunity for another lower 48 wolf fiasco. I'd like to see wood bison released as much as anyone, and I'd really like to see them go to the Yukon Flats because that's where they have the best potential, but rushing them out while they're still listed is a really bad idea...unless you're an attorney looking for employment.
              +10
              I live in an area that has more ESA listing than you can shake a stick at.
              I could go on for hours on the horrors of the ESA................Been to all the meetings........Listened to all the BS...
              Critical habitat .........Designated critical habitat...........Emergency listing.........these are the things that will bite you in the *****............Good luck with your fight, we've lost it here..............
              "The older I get, the better I was."

              Comment


              • #52
                I'm hoping somebody can provide some insight:
                Is there currently any type of a rural subsistence priority on any of the bison herds currently in AK?
                And:
                Why would anybody expect to ever gain a rural subsistence priority on an animal introduced by the State, or, why does anybody think that a rural subsistence priority for Woods Bison, or an other introduced specie would be ok?
                Don't read between the lines. I am not against the project. I am also not arguing subsistence as it is today. I'm just wondering what the long term holds.
                ARR

                Comment


                • #53
                  Jeff, and Travelers...there is no real comparison here to the lower48 wolf issue

                  First, I know that links provided here are often not viewed, but I really encourage everyone with concerns about the ESA listing and wood bison reintroduction to check out this paper that ADFG put out two years ago to address the (similar) concerns that Doyon and Gov Palin were touting:
                  http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/sp...esa_2_4_09.pdf

                  Secondly, as to how this wood bison reintroduction and the special rule that would cover it relates to the wolf reintroduction in the lower 48, the bottom line is that the two issues are not analgous, for several reasons that I would think would be pretty clear.

                  And Jeff, this project and where we stand right now with confirmed disease-free herd of wood bison at the conservation center here in Alaska, is the absolute farthest thing from a "rushed" endeavor. I have been on the sidelines for a while now while all this has been going on, I've even communicated directly with Dept of Interior on some aspects of it for our org. The feds haven't moved as fast as we'd hoped, either, to reclassify wood bison from endangered to threatened status. But that has now happened and as the Department clearly states in that pdf file link I posted above, neither the Dept or the State of Alaska is going to reintroduce wood bison until the formal agreements and rulings are in place and there is absolutely no threat of these animals having any impacts on development or land use.

                  Look, I am not saying here that I agree with everything in the ESA or how it has been used in the past. I get that people naturally have valid concerns here about reintroduction of bison in Alaska under any ESA ruling. But what I don't get, honestly, is how even after F&G has spent years now addressing those concerns, and years of public meetings, the outcome of which was overwhelming broad support from the hunting and local communities...that we are still getting such pushback from hunters like Rep Dick, and some here, against this project.

                  All these concerns have been addressed. It now comes down to people either believing or not believing in this workable framework for reintroduction. By all means, also feel free to speak with Bob Stephenson or Randy Rogers at ADFG about this. They are the lead guys and can answer all your questions and speak to any concerns.
                  Selah,

                  Mark Richards
                  www.residenthuntersofalaska.org

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    My question is to Bushrat -- The document stated the following:

                    "Wood bison would be treated as 'proposed for listing' on all lands other than National Park and National Wildlife Refuge lands, where they would be treated as threatened."

                    So if they wandered into the Yukon Flats area, they would be treated as 'threatened'? I get that may be one of the motivations for wanting to release them in Minto Flats area...Anyways, just curious.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Dr No,

                      The way I understand it, if the wood bison are on any USFWS Refuge (or Park/Preserve) lands, such as the Yukon Flats, their "threatened" status, even with the special ESA rules and agreement with the state, requires federal consultation with FWS over issues like hunting those animals that would remove some from the population.

                      On any other lands, like in Minto Flats, we would not need to undergo consultation with feds, basically the state would manage those animals according to the agreement in place, which would eventually allow them to be hunted.

                      Best,
                      Mark Richards
                      www.residenthuntersofalaska.org

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        This whole process is clear as mud. We're setting our grandchildren up to hunt bison, but of course by that time our grandchildren will be too broke to afford the trip to hunt bison.

                        I don't mind shooting game animals for meat, but I detest the thought of penned-up game animals. Just let the **** things GO.

                        SOMEWHERE.

                        Taylor

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Rock_skipper View Post
                          Labman post 22, why does that bother you, would you rather see them killed and nobody wins, you guys kill me. There is a chance another Delta herd could be born, but it won't have a chance if people ar'nt behind it. Hey vote against it and you will never know what could have been.
                          It bothers me because I don't see a reason for hunting preferences to be given to a specific group of people. As a re-introduced species, I think all Alaskans should get an equal shot at them.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by bushrat View Post
                            Dr No,

                            The way I understand it, if the wood bison are on any USFWS Refuge (or Park/Preserve) lands, such as the Yukon Flats, their "threatened" status, even with the special ESA rules and agreement with the state, requires federal consultation with FWS over issues like hunting those animals that would remove some from the population.

                            On any other lands, like in Minto Flats, we would not need to undergo consultation with feds, basically the state would manage those animals according to the agreement in place, which would eventually allow them to be hunted.

                            Best,
                            Thanks for the clarification. For those of you who find the process unclear, please re-read (or read) the documents and post your questions. I'm sure others would be willing to help you gain a better understanding.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              This is just a bad idea. Guaranteed in a year or two after their release a few will be killed for subsistence and the numbers will drop and Center for Bio-BS will be in court. This isn't good. Give 'em back to Canada, we can do without one more headache/fight with the feds.

                              http://www.adn.com/2011/04/04/179224...e-delayed.html


                              Tim

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I read Dr. No's articles and these statements scare me:

                                "Through conservation efforts and management in Canada, the population of 300 has grown to over 4,000 disease-free animals, with a total of about 10,000 animals in the wild."
                                "USFWS is completing a status review and may downlist or delist wood bison based on the substantial improvement in their status since they were listed as endangered about 40 years ago."

                                So they get delisted, unlisted, ratcheted down to threatened-whatever. If they're delisted, can't the whack-jobs sue and get them re-listed with a brand new endangered status for ANOTHER 40 years? Sorry, but ESA and EPA make my blood boil. I'd like to see both abolished, personally. These animals don't seem like they're worth the energy to fight the court battles ($$$$$) and feds to re-intro them. Euthanized them or give them back to Canada. Steak 'em up and I'd try them too.

                                Tim

                                Tim

                                Comment

                                Footer Ad Module 300 x 300

                                Collapse

                                Footer Adsense

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X