This ought to stir up some emotions

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  • #31
    Originally posted by AlpineEarl View Post
    It's long been settled and clear.
    I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt that.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by AlpineEarl View Post
      Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Entitlement to Natives? All any of you have to do is read the proposal. ADFG has had a web page and literature dedicated for this for years. There is no conflict with hunters, it's a win for us. The only crazy opposition comes from some ESA stunt while completely ignoring the facts surrounding the release.
      Its in the article. Subsistence hunters can kill 'em when they hit the ground. Hence, the ESA comes in (later, after depletion of the herd; of course not due to subsistence hunting, but "loss of habitat," that's the new thing) and will tell us not to fly a Cub or fart within 50 miles of a head of Wood Bison.

      Post-up your link to the win-win. It don't look that way from here, yet.

      Tim

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      • #33
        Originally posted by northway View Post
        As far as I know, there is no one that will be entitled to these bison. The ones they want to release are woodland bison and there are only a few spots in Alaska that they have identified for them to be released. The biggest one is the Yukon Flats, but with the exploration that Doyon is doing right now, has put that on hold. I have no issues with getting these animals released to wherever they will survive. NO ONE should be able to hunt them via subsistence at all. When the population is big enough to allow harvest, it should be by drawing permit only.
        I agree with you 100%. They should allow the herd to settle and stabilize. Once there then draw permits just like the Delta/Farewell/Copper Valley herds ~ equal opportunity for everyone.

        HOWEVER, if the following quote is true ~ you can bet your arse that this AK Native will take full advantage of the opportunities in front of him and would be one of the first set of boots on the ground, just like anyone else would if they had the chance.

        Even without the exemption, he said the act allows for Alaska Natives or residents of Alaska Native villages to hunt the bison for subsistence. The exemption also would specify the point at which non-natives could begin hunting the bison, Vincent-Lang said.
        In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
        _________________________________________________

        If I come across as an arrogant, know-it-all jerk, it's because I am

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        • #34
          Originally posted by sayak View Post

          Fullbush- sell your gillnetter and get a plane. Then you can take advantage of those "special" opportunities.
          Look, I'm striving to reduce the stress in my life. I'm afraid a plane wouldn't be the best idea. Besides how would ADF&G stop the hordes of sockeye. I've become one of their goto tools as far as escapement control. Its called "the Gatekeeper" clause. Hey sayak, old buddy! don't you have a plane? :whistle:
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          • #35
            If they get out at Portage...they are an invasive. The USFS has already let the Portage zoo fence and clear public land and displaced the local animal that I could hunt...moose. I used to see 50+ moose per winter down there but now that the moose 'migration' route between the 3 valleys has been blocked by fence, the wolves are having a field day up 20 mile.

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            • #36
              Let's separate the facts from the pure fiction

              No one can hunt these bison the minute they hit the ground. There would not be any hunting at all allowed for many years.

              Thanks to Dr No for posting the link to the youtube clip of the Newsminer interview with Rep Dick. He is basically spreading the same false info that Doyon and Gov Palin have spread previously, that the "10j" clause in the ESA that these bison would come in under that declares them a non-essential/experimental population is some kind of ruse, that the feds will then somehow go back on their word, that enviro orgs would sue for some reason, that eventually people will be locked out, development can't occur.

              All that is simply false. And F&G has long explained why that is not true and given examples of where the 10j rule has been applied elsewhere and no one sued and no development was blocked etc.

              It is really a shame that this project has been thwarted so far and that now we are on the #3 choice for a location to reintroduce these animals. The state was going to put them in both the Yukon Flats and Minto areas. The benefit of reintroduction in the Minto Flats area was that it is mostly comprised of state lands and so in future when hunting was allowed all Alaskans would have had opportunity for a permit. Likely on the Yukon Flats (and lower Innoko), initial hunting would be confined to federally qualified subsistence users.

              Regardless of who gets to eventually hunt these animals first, let's not take our eye off the larger picture and project here, which is similar to muskox reintroduction, to rebuild sustainable population(s) of an extirpated indigenous species. This is a fantastic conservation effort we should all support.
              Mark Richards
              www.residenthuntersofalaska.org

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              • #37
                I am not opposed to the re-introduction of Wood Bison in Alaska. However, I live in Anchorage and work for a living and seriously doubt I'll ever be allowed to hunt them.

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                • #38
                  I donít really have a dog in the fight as I have no illusions of ever hunting them being as old as I am but given that Wood Bison once roamed the Alaska landscape (even though it has been around 200 year since they did) and given they are still here the efforts to restore them are admirable and worthwhile.

                  I know what Mark points out is true but I think we would have to be extremely naÔve to accept that there would not be changes to the agreement that currently exists once a population was established and growing. With that I also would contend that thinking there will be a viable population that would allow anyone but local hunters to take them is probably a bit of a stretch.

                  But you know what, thatís okay. The bison are a fascinating creature that has been a part of our history essentially since we arrived. I for one can live with having a population of them out there for the sake of knowing they are there. Maybe it is old age but Iíve since past the point where in order for an animal to be valuable I also have to be able to hunt it. Maybe I wouldnít feel that way if I lived somewhere that I could not literally hunt every day, I donít know.

                  This project has been going on for a very long time and a lot of resources have been utilized to make it happen. It has the support of most of the hunter/conservation organizations and I believe that support comes even knowing that they are never going to be a real significant factor in the big game hunting arena. I vote to get them out and see how they fair, I think we owe the bison that much.

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                  • #39
                    Waaaaayyy back...

                    When the Bering Landbridge Toll Authority was overrun and burned to the ground, and the Tundraland D.F.G. put the Wooly Mammoth and Mastodon on subsistence-only status...

                    They were immediately hunted to extinction. Well, actually, many were left on the tundra up by the 'bridge' (near current-day Point Hope) because they weren't fit to eat.

                    Such will be the future of the Wood Bison if tossed out onto the tundra near the Yukon Flats in the name of subsistence.

                    I'm jus' sayin'...

                    LOL

                    Taylor

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                    • #40
                      There used to be Bison as far as the eye could see. Prior to the 1800's.

                      I'm just sayin.........
                      In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
                      _________________________________________________

                      If I come across as an arrogant, know-it-all jerk, it's because I am

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by aksnowmo View Post
                        If they get out at Portage...they are an invasive. The USFS has already let the Portage zoo fence and clear public land and displaced the local animal that I could hunt...moose. I used to see 50+ moose per winter down there but now that the moose 'migration' route between the 3 valleys has been blocked by fence, the wolves are having a field day up 20 mile.
                        Then we need to 1st take out the wolves while this zoo has them bottle necked, 2nd we need to remove the zoo, 3rd we need to remove the the USFS, I don't recognize the flag they fly.
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                        • #42
                          Well its simple really, Let the Fed ESA them. Then turn them loose in Delta with the plains bison, who can show them the ropes. Then with an ESA herd, lets see a bunch of money grubbing farmers build a fence around the bison range. Then in 10 years with a little help from mom nature, the Wood bison will all be mixed bison and open game. Think it can't/won't happen? Call the ADN& KTUU as the Department staff prepare to shoot them to get rid of them. Anyone call Defenders of Wildlife yet?
                          squab (probably of Scandinavian descent; skvabb, meaning "loose, fat flesh") is a young domestic pigeon or its meat

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                          • #43
                            On one level I'm enjoying this thoroughly -- the tin foil brigade is out in force! :topjob:On another level, I'm disappointed; this should really be a slam dunk that hunters should get behind. I'm with bushrat, I envision this to be similar to musk ox...In case anyone is interested, one of the articles points out that F&G is projecting a 10-12 yr ramp up before hunting is allowed. There is also a link to the USFWS document to classify the species as an nonessential experimental population on the last link--under "Policy Actions". If people are really worried about this designation changing, get our Congressional delegation to sponsor some legislation that would expressly limit any change to this designation. But first things first, let's get some bison out there...Btw, who cares if you, as a non-rural hunter, don't get first crack? If they don't get released, you don't get a crack at them. EVER.

                            http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...58&issue_id=28
                            http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...son.management
                            http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...cies=woodbison
                            Last edited by Dr.No; 03-31-2011, 16:29. Reason: clarification

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                            • #44
                              I just re-watched Rep Dick's interview...I have to say I like the part where he says there should be public testimony 'besides the little community" that ADF&G has spoken to. This thing was open to public testimony already! From the *public*, not just any "little community". And members of this "little community" apparently include residents of Ft. Yukon, Doyon, residents of the lower Innoko/Yukon River area, the Grayling-Anvik-Shageluk-Holy Cross Advisory Committee (all of that is per the "Review of Public Comment and Notice of Decision Report, Dec 12, 2007")...Are these not members of his district? I'll help you out - they are.

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                              • #45
                                Thanks for posting-up Dr. No. Got some reading to do now.

                                Tim

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