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  • #46
    Originally posted by kodiakrain View Post
    Ohhh, you got a can of worms going there,...... Very Good Question

    From my perspective, knowing a few of the Corp. folks locally, and what they are talking about concerning hunting access fees, etc.

    I don't think they know the answer to that,

    They're doing it, cause they see the value of a Brown Bear, as much higher than an Elk, and Way Higher than a Blacktail Deer

    but legally, I wonder if anyone has questioned this yet?
    So, Is the game animal, found on their land, still a public resource ?

    It's a fair size discrepancy, $1300 some for Bear, $125 for three Deer,.....Hmmmm

    (maybe it's, all those Bear hunters arriving with Weatherby Gun Cases ??)
    Interesting line of questions. I know you pay $1,500 to hunt Bison on Ahtna land if you are lucky enough to draw DI454. The native corp out on Popof Is. charges something like $5,000 to hunt one of the Bison on their land. In both of these cases, the Bison live on the respective corporation's lands, but are not property of the corporation ( i now that's the case for Ahnta, not 100% sure of shumigan corp). You can go to the ranch in Delta and pay $3,000 (close to that I think) to shoot and Elk or Bison on Scott's land. His private herd, his land.

    I don't think there is a limit or max or guidance to what can be charged, but I'm not 100%.
    In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
    _________________________________________________

    If I come across as an arrogant, know-it-all jerk, it's because I am

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Marc Taylor View Post
      Plane flies off. You're left on a riverbank in S.W. Alaska by a reputable, licensed transporter.
      You're unpacking gear and along comes the skiff full of locals, one holding his ticket book.
      He wants $850 each to stay on Podunk Native Lands or he's gonna write you a "ticket".

      What do you do?

      Taylor
      Stay below the high water mark and hope you see something on a gravel bar.

      The Native Corps cannot 'ticket' you; but they can take you to civil court, and if they're paying people to go out and look for trespassers I would assume that they would do so.

      The animals are indeed a public resource, though people will always try and capitalize on any way they can benefit from the resource (look at the fee to cross native land surrounding the airport in Old Harbor, I believe...)

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      • #48
        Originally posted by kodiakrain View Post
        So, Is the game animal, found on their land, still a public resource ?
        yes, the game is a public resource. permission to use private property in a certain way is what is being charged for.


        if i want to charge $10 for someone to chew bubble gum in my driveway I can. doesn't mean anyone has to pay. doesn't mean I have to charge the same fee for access for something else.


        the AK state fair routinely charges adults more for entrance than they charge children. so the way the logic seems to be going, someone should take that discrepancy to court too, right? oh and the rest of the year you can go on the fairgrounds for free to see other events. is that a problem too?

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        • #49
          kodiakrain, that was touched on in post 15 and muskeg mentioned that national forest does the same thing with permitting. different specie have different price tags.
          I see it as a grand way to get the the most outa the market...someone has a brownie tag, they are wayyy more apt to pay a higher fee than a deer hunter and they realize that and charge accordingly. its about what the market can bear...makin' money the good ol' fashion way.
          I for one and not a fan of it, i feel that if you have permission to access land to hunt and don't own the animals there should be no right to make extra money off a state owned animal...or maybe they should have a business license, insurance and an outfitter or transporter license of some sort. they are makin' money off the states critters...same thing i do.
          Www.blackriverhunting.com
          Master guide 212

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          • #50
            Is there a web site that shows land ownership? or where do you go to get that information?

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            • #51
              Google it.
              If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.:topjob:

              "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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              • #52
                Still have to wonder, if nobody has challenged this "charging of any rate they choose to hunt specific species on their land,..."

                Not trying to stir stuff up, just really curious if it is in plain script anywhere, or has been challenged, the hunting rights part

                is that animal really a public resource, if you can't harvest it, unless it walks off their private land,
                the animal essentially belongs to the land owner via access rights, correct ??
                Are we kidding ourselves, "That's my moose, I just can't get to it from here,....."

                Is it similar, (in a strange way for sure), to the access to Commercially Marketed Halibut or Sablefish ?

                "Sorry," says the Federal Govt. even though they swim, dine, reproduce, in publically owned oceans,
                they are NOT a public resource, anymore.

                The rights have been allocated to individuals who can choose to harvest or not, or lease out those rights if they choose

                but Nobody else can touch them, or at least not to sell for profit,
                or even have on board your vessel in the form of filets in your galley freezer

                Major bust, Huge Fine, maybe even take away your vessel for messing with that one.
                Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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                • #53
                  Al, try to think of it from the perspective I explained below. It is private land. Do you support private property rights?


                  Discussion of ANCSA and its merits is a completely different conversation, though obviously related due to the unprecedentedly large tracts of private property, and thus these types of discussions but really it's no different.


                  there is absolutely no legal basis for challenging what you are describing. ANCSA would have to be amended to allow such access, and I wouldn't wait around for that to happen.



                  Think of it like someone who owns a harbor charging more for commercial boats to dock and bring their catch as opposed to rec. boats. If the private harbor owner wants to do that, it's their perogative.


                  obvbiously no landowner can go and fence game animals on their land to keep them there, but certainly they can charge for access, just as any private property owner can. and as anyone knows, one generally charges what the market will bear.

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                  • #54
                    Kodiak, as to managing lands via ownership, with "public animals" walking over and through it, Its been done for years and years in the lower 48, called "Hunting Leases", as I understand it.

                    Groups of guys, "Hunting Clubs" will lease time on land to hunt, as well as individuals, as well as Corperations will buy up "Hunting time" for employees, I've read, and sometimes its exotic species, sometimes migratory. Guys pay according to what their hunting, and when someone offers more $$$ , leases get dropped and new lease owners hunt........... and I'm sure its set a precedent in business that the state and and private owner wishes to charge for land acess. The State manages all game on private lands in Alaska.

                    Sounds like the Waters are no better.......


                    Its as sickining to hunting as a paved road......The great Southern Kill appraoches.......Hunting for $$$
                    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.:topjob:

                    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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                    • #55
                      Yes, I Totally and Completely support Private Property rights,

                      I also have no problem with Native Land Allotment, and their rights to say, "Enough Already," to folks using their land in abusive, selfish, trashy, ways, which is fact on how some of it has been done in the past.

                      I'm not really trying to get anybody "going all Litigious, about it" (is that the word? for getting wound up about lawsuits?)

                      Just thinking out loud on the internet, sorry,

                      If you can't hunt there, you can't hunt those animals, if someone wants to charge you to hunt their legally alloted, bought, inherited land whatever,
                      I actually support that completely, in case my posting has anyone wondering.

                      Just hunt somewhere else, or pay the people.

                      Just curious as to what the wording in the Land allotments were, considering things like Mineral rights being held back by Feds in past land deals?
                      I'd be willing to bet the Game on said lands, were actually part of the allotment, and thus are really not a public resource,...??
                      but no, I'm not going to research it out on the internet,
                      I'll just willingly pay for a permit to hunt on Leisnoi land, Heck, they sure don't need any more hassles

                      Ok, I'll cut out the political stirring up, I really believe it should be, as I have highlighted above.

                      and I'll even add for those tending toward the racially charged end of this idea,
                      "C'mon man, if you know the Native people of Alaska very well at all, you'll have to agree, They are about the most UNSELFISH People around, really, that's just the Truth"
                      Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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                      • #56
                        Why these type of threads tend to get off track has to do with the title of this one: "Native Land and tickets...?"

                        It should really be: "Private Land and tickets...?"
                        Mark Richards
                        www.residenthuntersofalaska.org

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                        • #57
                          Little? how much do they need? I don't know about health insurance but they gave up the right to reservations for cash. A reservation is the real thing, actually a sovereign nation with it's own police and fish and game laws. Alaska native private property is just that,private property. They have no more right to fine me then I would if I caught someone in my yard.


                          If it's not posted I go on it. I can't keep track of 10s of millions of acres.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Erik in AK View Post
                            kodiakrain thanks for the clarification. Your post begs another question: Can a private landowner charge what amounts to a trophy fee for taking a public resource (game animal).

                            Charging a flat rate for access is one thing but charging for access on a sliding scale based on the perceived value of state property is another.
                            The guiding industry does this all the time. One price for a guided moose hunt. Shoot a grizzly bear off the carcass of the dead moose from the last hunter and the Grizz hunt is much higher. Same camp, same transport, different public animal, higher price. It's just the way it is.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by akbone View Post
                              Is there a web site that shows land ownership? or where do you go to get that information?
                              Here is an AHTNA map of around Cantwell.

                              http://www.ahtna-inc.com/images/cantwell.jpg

                              Mentasta area
                              http://www.ahtna-inc.com/images/mentasta.jpg

                              Northern Copper River Basin
                              http://www.ahtna-inc.com/images/northern.jpg

                              Southern Copper River Basin
                              http://www.ahtna-inc.com/images/southern.jpg
                              Last edited by pike_palace; 03-18-2011, 07:54. Reason: forgot url's
                              "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by jim in anchorage View Post
                                Little? how much do they need? I don't know about health insurance but they gave up the right to reservations for cash. A reservation is the real thing, actually a sovereign nation with it's own police and fish and game laws. Alaska native private property is just that,private property. They have no more right to fine me then I would if I caught someone in my yard.


                                If it's not posted I go on it. I can't keep track of 10s of millions of acres.
                                Wow, just Wow, given the nature of this entire post I shouldn't be shocked by the last statement. I'm a glass half full guy, so I'll point out that there is one sentences in this post that is true ~ Alaska native private property is just that,private property.

                                It is the land users responsibility to know the status of the property they are using. Native land, non-native land, martian land, or if you happen to get lost and end up in Canada. Its your responsibility. Can't do it, stay out of the woods.
                                In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
                                _________________________________________________

                                If I come across as an arrogant, know-it-all jerk, it's because I am

                                Comment

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