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Mountain rifle cartridge??

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  • Vek
    replied
    Thoughts on mountain rifles:
    *Not all accurate rifles are heavy, and not all heavy rifles are accurate

    *For all of the long-ish range mountain game shots I've taken, I've had ample time to find a good rest and set up the shot. Of course there are exceptions.

    *What matters in a mountain hunt is a consistent cold bore first shot. This can be simulated in practicing.

    *Once you're out past 300 yards, regardless of chambering for the most part, you'd better be verifying range with a rangefinder as most any chambering's drop numbers can put you out of the kill zone (possible exceptions - 257 weatherby and the sub-30cal STWs and Ultramags - change 300yards to 350 or 400). If you take the trouble to bring a rangefinder, then the importance of having a real hot chambering goes away somewhat.

    *Barrel lengths for relatively standard chamberings (-06 or 308 - based, or the shortmags) can land anywhere between 20" and 24" with little practical difference in terminal effects. Barrel length (within reason for any length worth considering) has zero effect on a rifle's absolute accuracy potential. Set length for balance - balance is everything. A light stock means a light barrel contour, or a shorter standard barrel contour.

    *Remington's original TI rifles with the adl bottom metal had it all...

    *Kimber's montana has it all.

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  • Smokey
    replied
    Something I left out was by going to the shorter action calibers like 7mm-08 to conserve weight, one could keep a little longer bbl which should be a plus for the longer range accuracy in mind. Say minimum of 22 and preferably a 23 or even 24. That would help with a little velocity gain and balance...
    Smitty, I like the way you think!

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  • Smitty of the North
    replied
    Originally posted by Smokey View Post
    What dilema:
    A. looking for a light weight Mtn Rifle - OK that's for the hunters comfort
    B. Then when the time comes we want a long range super accurate rifle - Hmmm does anybody else see a contrast???

    My vote would be to find a medium weight 7mm-08 or 308 and compromise a little carrying weight for increased platform stability for long range... Most stories I have seen here on Mtn hunting the shots seem to fall under 400 yards for most part, so these would work fine IMO. If'n one is worried about a bear you could always load some heavier rounds to carry in same guns when not ready to shoot mr Sheep or goat that while may not be a perfect solution it would be a alternative. Bear loads at 25 yards don't need to be super accurate - just SUPER!
    my 2cents worth...
    My choice would be a 280 though...
    I agree a hunnert percent with your 2 cents.

    Smitty of the North

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  • Smokey
    replied
    What dilema:
    A. looking for a light weight Mtn Rifle - OK that's for the hunters comfort
    B. Then when the time comes we want a long range super accurate rifle - Hmmm does anybody else see a contrast???

    My vote would be to find a medium weight 7mm-08 or 308 and compromise a little carrying weight for increased platform stability for long range... Most stories I have seen here on Mtn hunting the shots seem to fall under 400 yards for most part, so these would work fine IMO. If'n one is worried about a bear you could always load some heavier rounds to carry in same guns when not ready to shoot mr Sheep or goat that while may not be a perfect solution it would be a alternative. Bear loads at 25 yards don't need to be super accurate - just SUPER!
    my 2cents worth...
    My choice would be a 280 though...

    Leave a comment:


  • t-storm
    replied
    Rifle weight may also be an issue, if your rifle weighs much less than 7lbs., 7 mags and 30 cal. are going to bite the s#*t out of your shoulder and jar your expensive dental work. A 6.5-284 norma is ideal but factory ammo could be big problem. I think anything from 26-06 to 280 rem. would be great as long as it's not some rare cal. that you cant get brass for. I personally like 7mm-08, and 284 win. for ultra light, flat shooting, low recoil, and puts a nice size hole in the chest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dan in Alaska
    replied
    Originally posted by LuJon View Post
    I see what you are saying in that instance but honestly if I wanted to shoot animals at that distance I would look at a 7mm mag vs 300 win mag comparison.
    The results are going to be less dramatic, but very similar to the 7mm-08/.308 comparison. The Hodgdon data has the velocities pretty much the same (about 3150fps) for the 139's and 165's out of their perspective cartridges. The higher BC of the 7mm projectile will maintain its velocity better, so when you stretch things out, the .30cal bullet will lose ground to the 7mm, once again......I'm seeing a pattern here.

    I know the .30 cal is viewed as "the king" in many circles, but I admit to not being a big fan. The 7mm bullet offerings usually have a higher BC, and consequently do better at longer ranges, than their .30cal counterparts. And, if you compare similar performance cartridges between the two calibers (7mm-08/.308, .280/.30-06, 7mag/.300WM, etc.), the 7mm offerings are associated with less recoil than their .30-caliber cousins. If I want/need something bigger than 7mm, I jump right to the .338 or .375 calibers - go big or go home, so to speak.

    What does this mean to a hunter that shoots less than 400-500 yards? Probably nothing, but what would they talk about at the campfire?

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  • JEFFSTER
    replied
    270 Win. in my 78 sportsman 130 gr NP or 140 gr BT Interlocks. JMHO

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  • LuJon
    replied
    I see what you are saying in that instance but honestly if I wanted to shoot animals at that distance I would look at a 7mm mag vs 300 win mag comparison.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dan in Alaska
    replied
    Originally posted by LuJon View Post
    I thought hard about a 7-08 for my next mountain rifle. The longer I looked the more I realized that it doesn't seem to offer any advantage over the good old 308, in fact there were more drawbacks than advantages when put side by side. Most of the negligable but still... Same spec rifle the 7mm will weigh slightly more, the ammo costs a little more, the range of bullet weights is smaller and lighter while not being any faster, at least according to the load data I found. My hodgdon book puts the 308 tossing 165's at about the same speed that the 7-08 will toss 145's.
    Here are some numbers to ponder. I tried to keep things true to your example and as apples-to-apples as possible - same bullet manufacturer & type, loading data from the same company (highest I could find), etc. Velocities are from Hodgdon's online loading data, and calculations via JBM's online ballistics calculator.

    7mm-08 - 139gr Hornady Interbond (.486 BC, 2900fps)
    .308 Win - 165gr Hornady Interbond (.447 BC, 2775fps)


    Drop at 500 yards:
    7mm-08 - 49.5 inches
    .308 Win - 56.7 inches

    Wind drift at 500 yards:
    7mm-08 - 18.7 inches
    .308 Win - 22.0 inches

    Energy at 500 yards for both is vitually the same, at 1200 ft-lbs & change. At 500 yards, the 7mm-08 does the same job with less drop and drift, and beyond 500 yards, it gets even uglier for the .308. At 800 yards, the .308's projectile drops 30" more than the 7mm-08's, and has another 10 inches of wind drift. The 7mm-08's projectile is also moving faster and has more energy at 800yds than the one fired from the .308 Win.

    What does this mean to the real world hunter? That's up to the individual hunter to decide, but launching higher-BC projectiles at faster velocities is a good thing, and the 7mm-08 simply does a better job - especially for the handloader. The .308 Win is probably a better choice for folks shooting factory ammo, though, since there is a lot more variety of factory loaded .308 ammo to choose from.

    Leave a comment:


  • .338 mag.
    replied
    The 6.5, .7mm and .308 calibers seem to be very popular calibers for punching holes in live and paper targets at great distances. The choice of bullets is huge and charts are available that show you all the ballistics. So it just depends on how much power you want. Then you have to decide on the rifle and scope combo that best suits the caliber. Our military is very fond of the .308 caliber and the .308 Winchester case. Many bench rest shooters use it and some version of the 6.5 caliber. The 7mm caliber is used for much of the long range shooting on the Best of The West show. What ever you choose just remember your critter deserves to be shot with a decent hunting bullet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Smitty of the North
    replied
    Originally posted by icb12 View Post
    .260 remington
    That sounds good to me, or a 6.5x55.

    I choose 7x57 or 7mm-08, but that's cause 7mm is my Caliber.

    With heavy for caliber bullets, these cartridges have proven to be, reliable dispatchers of all North American Beeg Game, and more.

    Smitty of the North

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  • Smitty of the North
    replied
    Originally posted by kloshe View Post
    My vote goes to the 300wsm for a mountain rifle. it won't do anything a 300winmag can't, but it does do it in a shorter barrel, smaller action, and therefore a lighter rifle. I also think any rifle carried should give a hunter a level of comfort against bear troubles, which a 300wsm does with a good bullet.
    Your reasoning is Interesting.

    Do you think that a 300 WM, with as short a barrel, and loaded to the same pressure level, won't do as well?

    Won't, 300 Magnums would do better with a longer barrel, whether they're crowded into a short action or not?

    Is there a practical advantage of having smaller action, when the difference in weight and bolt throw are so slight?

    A 300 Magnum would be my LAST choice for a "Mountain"/(lightweight) rifle. With that kind of recoil, a heavier gun with a longer barrel is indicated.

    The WSM version reely doesn't change anything, but perception. It's jist a nother 300 Mag. with more downsides than ups.

    Smitty of the North

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  • Cheech
    replied
    Don't chime in much but since mod7rem mentioned the .284, I thought I would say that is my go to rifle. Love my .270 but the .284 ULA is almost 2 pounds lighter. I load 140 grain NPs at 3000 fps and have taken many sheep, goat and one grizzly with it.

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  • mod7rem
    replied
    My "go to" rifle is a stainless model 7 in 284 winchester. When I was going to rebarrel the m7(it started as a 243) I wanted a cartridge with some reach, some power, good selection of bullets and it had to fit the short action. So the 284 winchester was a perfect fit. It took me a lot of work but when it was finished it weighs in at 5.5lbs with 22" barrel, talleys, 6x36 leupold, butler creek flip ups, and sling. I've been using it for 8 yrs now and have taken stones, goats, caribou, elk, and lots of deer without any issues or need for anything more powerful. I've tried lots of different bullets but I have settled on hornady 154gr interlock for everything at about 2880fps.

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  • sert511
    replied
    .30-06 has always been a great caliber for me. Got a .300 wsm for x-mas and excited to give it a try for moose, bou and bear. For deer and sheep, I like the .25-06 and .270 wsm (fast, flat and accurate).

    BUT, you are going to be on Kodiak, where there are some slightly larger bears. I think the .300wsm with 165 or 180 grain barnes X would be a great choice for your trip.

    Please put a good optic on it as well with not to much magnification; you can't kill what you can't see.

    Leave a comment:

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