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Fortymile Final Solution

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  • Fortymile Final Solution

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    Stumbled across this article:

    http://www.news-miner.com/Stories/0,...320063,00.html

    and was looking for comments or opposing viewpoints. It seems Mr. Richards has a firm handle on the issue. Is he full of it, or right on?

    Chuck

  • #2
    Full of it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree, full of it.

      Comment


      • #4
        How so?

        Thank you for the quick replies, gents.

        Why is he full of it?

        Chuck

        Comment


        • #5
          for sure

          He's right on ... NOT! Definitely full of it!

          Comment


          • #6
            sounds like paul joslin

            they always claim to be fellow hunters

            Comment


            • #7
              Predator control

              Obviously Mark frequently shares his views on this site and is good at holding fish and game accountable. He brings up valid questions. One question is: has anyone ever read that Grizzlies are a significant predator of Caribou? But one factor he doesn’t consider is increasing the caribou herds size doesn’t necessarily have to increase numbers of hunters..it could just increase success rates. In this way environmental effects would remain the same despite the increased harvest which would be a successful F and G program right?
              “I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. “ Fred Bear

              Comment


              • #8
                forty mile

                Interesting article.I do agree that since the days of 4 wheel drive 4 wheelers and 6 wheelers we have all been able to expand to new country that was not avaliable 25 years ago. Remember the days of putting a moose on a honda big red three wheeler! Seems like you spent more time under it then on top. The new vehicles have been good as they have allowed us to now spread out and hunt further away from each other where as before the few trail areas were packed. What is unknown is how the hunting has truly impacted the herds. Granted less animals are taken from small areas but what is the total impact on the whole area? Fish and game did a great job this last season by adjusting the sub areas when the animals were to conregated close to the road. As far as the predators go i ask one question and that is what is so different in the last ten years then in the last 25. Has there been a dramatic increase in the fertility of wolves and bears? This question has not really been proven. It would appear that bears and wolves have been chosen to be a scape goat due to some other problem. I truly believ in culling the wolves and bears the problem i have with it is that somthing else is driving the moose and caribou levels down. What is it? It would not seem to be habitat building as we have not had a significant road built in many years. Could it be increased hunting pressure? Maybe. Could it be increase gps technology that allows people to go further and to lock in animals? maybe Could it be better equipment and items that allow us to travel lighter and further? maybe Could it be large atvs that allow us to hunt further and safer? maybe Could it be a true combination of all the items that i wrote? Probably!
                Culling wolves bears will assist but it is a combination of many things like the ones i wrote that is contributing to the decreasing numbers. Is the state of Alaska at least looking at trying to solve the problems i think so. Will they be successful? only time will tell. i hate regulations and stipulations like most Alaskans, that is one reason i came up here, but until we can take the core group of hunters and find ways to spread them further out the the accessable areas will see over use and decline. Look at all the variables i wrote and it is amazing that we have any animals left to hunt! Just my thoughts Viktor

                Comment


                • #9
                  More Info?

                  Not pressing, (ok, yes I am)

                  I'd like to hear more from the folks who say the author is full up with it. I'm curious as to the differentiation in viewpoints, and would appreciate greatly your assisting me in understanding the issue at hand.

                  Thanks for the posts so far!

                  Chuck

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sh
                    they always claim to be fellow hunters
                    Originally posted by Truenorthed
                    He's right on ... NOT! Definitely full of it!
                    Originally posted by Anthony
                    I agree, full of it.
                    Wow. I don't even know where to start. First of all, in response to sh, your assumption that Mark Richards just wants to "claim" to be a hunter is incredibly misguided. Mr. Richards is a member of this forum and has spent many years living a rural lifestyle where he hunts to provide food for his family. This is something many of us do, but in Mark's case he does not live in any village, but instead mainly relies on the game he hunts to provide nutrition. Does this make his some expert on the issue? Well, that could be debated...but he is certainly not some pseudo-hunter claiming to be something he is not. It's pretty easy to make such uninformed assumptions, but a simple Google search for his name would have painted a very different picture for you.

                    For the rest of you who claim that Mark is "full of it", I certainly respect your opinion and your engagement in this dialogue, but I also noticed that very little was offered in the way of support for your analysis. Why is he wrong?

                    I've never met Mark personally, but I have corresponded with him a bit through these forums and I've read many of his posts on these forums. One thing that is absolutely beyond question is that Mark is a man of research and study. While it's easy to support ones views with baseless opinion, Mark always goes the extra mile to track down and read the ADF&G studies, action plans, etc. He is incredibly well read on topics of wildlife management and ecology, and has a great grasp of ecodynamics. I say this not to suggest that you should agree with him on every issue, but to suggest that there's more to this than him just being "full of it" as though he's some uninformed activist living in Berkley who is concerned about the poor little wolves.

                    We've done this topic before, so I'm not sure if we need to rehash everything... but when one makes such a blanket assessment of a person, the least they could do is offer the reasoning behind their statement.

                    -Brian

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Neither! I also disagree that Mr. Richards has a firm handle on the issue. He raises legitimate concerns. Unfortunately, his piece doesn't discuss the benefits of the plan.
                      Anyone familiar with the past 2 years of pred control should easily realize the goals set by these programs are difficult to reach. I don't think a reasonable person can honestly believe these goals will come anywhere near being met.
                      Raising the number of caribou in the 40 mile herd will definately raise the number of hunters chasing this herd. The question is, will it raise to the levels mentioned in Marks opinion piece. I think not. He fails to account for the liklihood that the same people who favor pred control, will also work to limit the no. of hunters using the areas, should hunter interest become excessive. Between ADF&G, local users, guides, etc. I feel it likely that controls will be put in place should the problems mentioned begin to materialize.
                      It has taken some time to approve and implement pred control. It will take time to see results. I don't see any reason we won't be able to respond to these results and prevent the problems brought forth in Marks article.
                      Hunters within the 40 mile herd range have asked for, and worked to get pred control for a long time. This isn't a plan forced upon us by Gov Frank or Sen. Seekins. The last 2 sentances of Marks opinoin piece say:
                      "I don't think these changes are wonderful. We need your support to turn things around.

                      Mark Richards is co-chairman of Alaska Backcountry Hunters and Anglers."
                      This is the saddest part of this whole issue. We now have hunter against hunter. The anti hunting groupos couldn't be happier.
                      I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
                      I have less friends now!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by martentrapper
                        We now have hunter against hunter. The anti hunting groupos couldn't be happier.
                        It is absolutely untrue that this is a case of hunter against hunter. Having a thoughtful dialogue about issues where there is some disagreement is not pitting one against the other. We disagree on these forums all of the time, yet I would argue that these discussions strengthen hunters as a group. Disagreement need not be reduced to conflict. If we instead offered blind allegiance to anything offered up by other hunters, I fear what our management system would soon become. Mark, along with those he disagrees with, only seeks to protect and improve the very thing we're all so passionate about. Having these discussions in public only strengthens hunters as a group.

                        -Brian

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree with the author. i think it is outrageous that they want to kill that many predator's. when the caribou population is down the predator's will fall with iit. when the caribou pop. is up the predator's will rise with it. to just knock out that many animals in that expanse of land would also seem nearly impossible, without totally killing a few small areas.

                          on the atv and orv subject. i believe that it should be somewhat controlled. tracks will stay a very long time and it does kill the environment . i am an avid atv and orv user myself, but to what extent are you willing to go to kill an animal. are you going to rut up a hillside that has never been touched. somewhere the line will eventually have to be drawn. just my 2 cents
                          NRA life Member JVJ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            40 Mile question

                            Hey there are lots of hunters out there, it's not reasonable to expect that we will all agree on everything. We see examples of disagreement on the forums everyday. Almost every board of game proposal pits hunters against hunters. Each proposal benefits some and hurts others. Since so much of what we do in hunting is defined by our own personal ethics that will also cause differences. For example, I think it's wrong to chase bears on snow machines, prefering to "use the quads God gave me" while other hunters think mechanized pursuit of grizzlies and other game animals is just fine. Good thing we have a regulatory process to help sort all of this out for us.

                            Now to the 40 mile...

                            The herd has increased in abundance concurrent with increased predator control efforts, but is that increase a result of the predator control, or other unrelated factors? Won't a much larger herd have the potential to impact the range and cause another crash? It seems that a smaller herd would be more productive for a given unit of range (more calves per cow and therefore more sustainable yield). As long as a lot of predators are being killed the area will act as a predator sink, drawing in predators from other areas to fill the empty niches. If there's a lot of prey, there will be a lot of predators.

                            The 40 mile is a pretty easy hunt right now. It's hard to believe that anyone serious about hunting there could be complaining about a lack of caribou. What this is really about is boosting the herd so lazy hunters can go back to the Steese Highway bloodbath days.

                            In general I think predator control and the intensive managment harvest goals are designed to do two things: 1) give a big eye gouge to the animal rights people and 2) to make sure that everyone gets to kill an animal everytime they hunt. I could care less about 1, but if 2 is so important then we should just set up some big reindeer farms that people could drive their truck into and whack a couple for meat. Maybe the guys doing the airborne predator control could donate the money they save on expensive avgas to get the new herds started!

                            Everyone likes to talk about how the experience is what hunting is all about and that the kill is secondary. I would put myself in that category as well. I certainly like to kill the animal I am after (including wolves and bears if I have the chance), but to me the costs of intensive management are not worth paying to boost my success. I would rather hear wolves howling at night and see bears during the day.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well said, Chisana.

                              -Brian

                              Comment

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