.308 with premium 180 vs 30-06 with 220's

[WIsam]

So the argument is always that the 30-06 is the better gun for large game like moose and brown bear due to the ability to shoot 200's and 220's. Now days with premium bullets like the TSX and A frame wouldn't a .308 be as effective as the 30-06 on large game?

I was kind of curious because I've never heard of anyone using a .308 for brown bear but there are quite a few people using 06's and 220's. Is a 220 out of an 06 still a more effective stopper than a 180 grain TSX or A frame out of a .308?

[Kay9Cop]

My opinion is the .30-06 with good 180, 200, or 220 bullets is the minimum for brown bear. You can use the argument that if the .300 WM can kill a brown bear then why can't a .30-06 because they are so close in velocity...if a .30-06 can kill a brown bear then why can't a .308 Win because they are so close in velocity...if a .308 Win...you could probably keep it up until you got down to some very small centerfire cartridges. Ultimately you will eventually cross a suitability line some where and for me it's the .30-06. Look at the difference between a .308 Win and some more common brown bear calibers, like the .338 WM, and it becomes a lot more obvious why most won't take a .308 brown bear hunting.

[marshall]

I love the .308 but it would not be my Brown bear rifle unless it was in my hands and a Brownie was smiling at me.:rolleyes:

I think a 150 out of a .308 is the best bang for the buck. I don't think that would be an affective Brown bear stopper unless you had time for it to bleed to death.

[Amigo Will]

For hunting it would work most likely,as a stopper its better than a blank. At ten yards I would prefer a heavy handgun bullet but at a hundred the 308 would win

[Alaska_Lanche]

I bought a 300 WSM recently, but am having second thoughts and wishing I went with 308. First the gun is a pound lighter in 308 than the 300 WSM. Secondly a 300 WSM has the potential to have a complete pass through on a game more readily than a 308 thus leaving the extra ft lbs of energy off the 300 WSM on the table. Both have calibers shoot relatively similar weight bullets. As I'd shoot 165 grns out of either caliber.

That plus the fact that I have shot a couple grizz with a .308 and watched a 9.5 grizz fall in its tracks with just one 30-06 shot with a 180 grn round that had the same velocity a 308 is capable of, it really drives how the point that large caliber will never make up for poor shooting. Would I take it to Kodiak to hunt brown bear with it no I have a .338 for that if I ever draw a tag, but I'd feel confident with it against a grizz. In fact if I was actively only pursuing an interior grizz I'd probably take the .338 wm or a 45/70 just cause they gotta get their chance out of the safe at some point.

Plus when you figure my wife already shoots a .308 (she shoots my Rem model 7 now) and we can share the ammo rather than haul two different rounds makes sense to me.

[gogoalie]

Well, considering...

that I will be brownie hunting with an old man who's bringing a .30-30 & the Max Velocity for that is the 110 grn with 2684 ft/s & a whopping 1760 ft./lb energy output...& that the .308 180 grn can put out 2740 ft/s with 3k ft./lb of energy, & the trusty .30-06 220 grn puts out 2500 ft./s velocity & 2981 ft./lb engery...it should be a no brainer that a .308 180 grn would be suitable for brownies...espeically if you can shoot it well & place the shot where it counts...

[tjkanavel]

I have used my 308 for the last few years using either the 150gr or 165gr Barnes TSX's and have had great success. However, I would never consider it my Brown Bear gun. I wouldnt feel completely in adequate if while out hunting I ran into one and it was the rifle I had, I would just have to choose my shot my carefully and make sure it was a good one (like you should do any time with any rifle).

[mainer_in_ak]

The 308 can be loaded with a 200 grain bullet. Anything larger than that will eat up too much powder capacity. The ballisitic tip 180's (needing to be seated deeply) also eat up about as much space as a 200 grain standard flat based bullet too. A 308 Winchester loaded with a 200 grain premium bullet will get about 2500fps-2600fps. To me........that's a potent round ready to take care of business if need be. If you combine a round like that with a quick shooting rifle that puts second shots out the barrel in a split second, then you have one heck of a rifle. A sako, (60 degree bolt lift) browning A bolt (60 degree bolt lift), or Browning Blr, and you have accomplished two things: These rifles have a lower recoil than a 30-06 so you will recover from the recoil quicker. Second, the bolt throw is so short that you don't even have to take your face off the stock when you cycle the bolt (no loss of sight alignment). That is a potent combination of speed and power, so the nay-sayers and doubters of the 308's effectivness against a large bear are entitled to their opinions......but I beg to differ.

[MarineHawk]

... If you combine a round like that with a quick shooting rifle that puts second shots out the barrel in a split second, then you have one heck of a rifle. ...

One option:

[WIsam]

The question though is not whether it would be advisable to take a .308, but why it is that many peope wouldn't question taking a 30-06 while most people would think it's crazy top take a .308. In the past, I could see the argument that a .308 wouldn't shoot 220's well, but now that we have quality premium bullets on the market, I would imagine that most people would be using 180's instead. In this case there is such a small differance between the 08 and 06 that I don't see how it makes much differance. The 30-06 with 180's at 100 yards shoots like a .308 using the same bullet at 125.

Is the 220 instead of a premium 180 still the preferred bullet for the 06 when it comes to bears? If so then the argument still makes sense, but if not then I don't see why 100 fps makes that big of a differance. What am I missing?

By the way, I have no plans of hunting brown bears, and if I did I have bigger guns, but I was always curious about this question.

[MarineHawk]

If someone is going to hunt big bears with a .308 and they don't reload, they could use Federal's "High Energy" load or one of Hornady's "Heavy Magnum" loads. In the 165gr loadings, both exceed 3,000 ft lbs, which is more than any standard 30-06 loading. Unfortunatley, for some reason, they don't make the up-loaded rounds in anything heavier than 165gr.

But, if you believe a conventional 30-06 load is a good for brown bear, you can probably buy or reload something close to that in a stong .308 bolt action rifle.

[.338 mag.]

well.....

Premium bullets. Those wonderful projectiles, they expand at all reasonable hunting ranges, retain most of their weight no matter what they hit and give deep penetration. Us hunters never had it so good as far as bullets are concerned. The .30 caliber, Americas favorite, especially in the 30-06, that mythical all around caliber I will never be with out. The .308 Winchester. It holds a little less powder, so if both are loaded with the same bullet and max powder charge for each case the 30-06 will provide more "power". What the .308 will do with our advancements in powder and bullets is provide as much or more "killing power" as the 30-06 did fifty years ago when it was making a name for it self all over the world on big and small animals. So what is the 30-06 doing? I venture to say better then it ever was. According to my chronograph my 180 grain Barnes X load out of my Mod. 70 in 30-06 is giving me 2830 fps mv. We quit using the very good 200 grain Nosler Partition because of that bullet. I doubt that any 180 grain 30-06 factory load was going over 2700 fps mv 25 years ago. And I doubt the .300 Win. Mag. was getting it's claimed velocity 25 years ago. They all shoot the same bullets and their power goes up in increments as the case capacity grows. So there is a big difference between the .308 Win. and the big 300 Rem. Ultra Mag. And other .30 calibers fill in the gap.

[rbuck351]

The 308 can certainly kill any thing on the planet. Most African rifles shoot at 2300/2400 fps. But, they do it with heavy bullets that penetrate thick bone and keep going destroying tissue and if needed more bone and keep going. Lots of fps with light bullets doesn't get it. A 220 at 2500 has a big advantage over a 180 at 2600/2700 for heavy boned thick skinned critters coming at you, lbs ft energy be ****ed. If you choose to hunt big bears with a 308 and 165s or 180s, make sure the bear doesn,t see you before or after the shot as they usually get up and attempt to get at what ever stung them. Bigger calibers/bullets tend to break big bones better and make it so the bear can't get back up. It's your skin, do what you like.

[MarineHawk]

The 308 can certainly kill any thing on the planet. Most African rifles shoot at 2300/2400 fps. But, they do it with heavy bullets that penetrate thick bone and keep going destroying tissue and if needed more bone and keep going. Lots of fps with light bullets doesn't get it. A 220 at 2500 has a big advantage over a 180 at 2600/2700 for heavy boned thick skinned critters coming at you, lbs ft energy be ****ed. If you choose to hunt big bears with a 308 and 165s or 180s, make sure the bear doesn,t see you before or after the shot as they usually get up and attempt to get at what ever stung them. Bigger calibers/bullets tend to break big bones better and make it so the bear can't get back up. It's your skin, do what you like.

Right, but with my 13-lb anti-aircraft rifle pictured below, I can put 25 .308 rounds into a bear in about 5 seconds.

[Mostly just kidding].