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  • 50 inch 4 or more?

    I am not trying to change the rules on moose hunting but I don't understand why Alaska has this rule. The area I hunt has a lot of moose and I have seen 4 different bulls in the week I was there. I was hunting with a bow and was with-in 100yd of two bulls at the same time. One looked like a really old bull and the 2nd looked like he was about 3 years old. The older bull was on the "down hill" side of antler growth. The 2nd looked like he might be legal but I just could not tell and I had to much to loose to be wrong (i.e.-truck ATV'S and so on). From what I was told, they made the rule to try and get bigger bulls but I just don't think all bulls have the genetics to get that big. So the ones that might not get that big are not being killed and just keep passing on their bad genes. I would really love to sit down with someone and talk about it. I'm going to try and post a picture of one bull that I spent 3 hours looking at while he was bedded. I thought for sure he was going to be legal, but when he finally looked my way it was to close for my comfort. His horns were just past his ears and it didn't look like he had any brow palms at all. Everyone that I have shown this picture to told me I should have taken him. Tell me what you think.....Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    From what I was told by one of Fish and Feathers biologists is the same as what you heard. The bulls that have only spike fork that late in the year don't have the genetics to get real big so shoot them to remove them from the gene pool and sooner or later we will just have those that will get to 50" if not shot before they mature. It made sence at the time , but I don't know how well it has worked in practice. I was told this about 15 years ago so ???

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    • #3
      Kinda hard to chew.......

      Id make most definit "Sure" before I would shoot, if ever I were in your shoes, and without the brow tines to back up a gesstemate, you just cant be "Sure".

      I think you made a good choice under those circumstances.
      If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.:topjob:

      "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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      • #4
        the number of the brow tines gives an estimate of the age, folks that are used to deer genetics look for the largest rack in a herd to be the breeder, often look for moose, to be the same and, that can be the wrong assumption.

        some time ago the Bios determined, that the older, thus larger bulls, were all doing the breeding,(thumbs up deer thinking) and yet, the moose were in a decline,( no one knew why) after some more studies, they found that a larger percentage of the breeding bulls.. ages 5/6 yr old and older were shooting blanks while keeping the cows herded up from the bulls that could breed them...

        the four brow tine is supposed to be the equivalent of a 5+ year old bull... or the 50..or larger is supposed t be the older bulls..

        in the areas they are trying to increase moose density, these rules have been in place for many years,,


        the idea though foreign. to many from the south is not to increase rack size for trophy's hunting... but to increase population count for meat hunting.


        I too have noticed in my home unit/ 20A it getting harder to find a LARGE bull moose.. I guess they are in fact breeding the size out of them.. last year every 4 browtiner i skinned was 43-47inches


        the one 50 1/2... was three tine.

        so by breeding the genetic gene people out of them they are increasing hunting opportunities.. but your days of the NICE racks may becoming limited in a drainage near you......


        in fact i just spent yesterday out with the kids, after 5 years of cow hunting and 700+ any bull tags, with a 4 or 50 limit on the rest...


        we walked out 310 acers and did not see any moose...hmmm well thats okay and half way normal...

        nor is there any sign of tracks this year in the 200 acers of browse we have... i am more then a little concerned on yesterday walk...but that is another thread:cool:
        "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

        meet on face book here

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        • #5
          Hi All The Reason We Have The Spike Fork Fifty In The Tanana Flat 20A Is Because Of Mike Denuet And Ron Long Two Guide That Use To Guide In The Alaska Range, They Politict Julie Mirirs Of The Board Of Game And Don Young That Wants To Shoot All The Cow And Calfs Off, That They Did Not Have Anuff Big Bulls For There Hunter. And Now You Our Stuck With It. How Do I Now I Was On The Fairbanks Fish And Game Advisory Board For Ten Years.

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          • #6
            In addition to what's already been offered, biologists also feel that the moose that are being harvested under these rules (the largest/oldest, & the youngest) have the least chance of surviving the winter.
            Vance in AK.

            Matthew 6:33
            "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

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            • #7
              I get what your saying!!

              I understand everything you guys are saying. I don’t want people to think I am a “trophy” hunter. I would be happy shooting cows. I love moose’s meat, and I even think its better than venison. The only reason I asked about this is cues I just didn’t understand. I know when someone tells you something its not always the truth “like what I was told about making bigger bulls”. I love hunting and I was ok with not getting anything this year. I think the reason I love it so much is just for the fact that I get to spend time in the woods. It is true I don’t know all that much about moose genetics and I have tried to find reading material about it but I cant. That is why I posted this thread, to try and understand a little better. Pleas don’t take this as someone crying about the regulations.

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              • #8
                First off I don't think you can tell very easily from that picture but I am not confindent that is a 50" bull. His paddles looked cupped in to me and not laid out. I think you made the right choice. Hard to tell on a side view though.

                I think the 50" 4 brow tine rule needs evaluation. There is areas on the yukon that a young bull will have 4 browtines yet in some units or parts of unit 13 they might not ever get 4 brow tines imo. I think it is genetics by unit more so than age but I am no biologist either and surely don't claim to know it all.

                This is based purely on my observation of lots of moose in different units.

                Some areas just have large bulls with large racks and some don't.

                Some areas are also known for the big bulls over 50 but only have 2 brow tines or salad forks.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 375ultramag View Post
                  But I am no biologist either and surely don't claim to know it all.

                  You should be ,IMO I think you do know it all You are the moose "KING" . Glad to see you around they must have you busy at work
                  PEOPLE SAY I HAVE A.D.D I DON'T UNDERSTA.....OH LOOK A MOOSE !!!

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                  • #10
                    The deer thing in open range has proven wrong.We now know that the best buck will only cover 4 to 6 does durning mateing season.I'm sure it would be much less with moose as they don't realy herd up.
                    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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                    • #11
                      They heard up in the fall. I've seen two bulls with twenty cows herded up more than once on Oct 1st right above treeline.
                      Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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                      • #12
                        get rid of the brow tine rules

                        just make it fifty and spike/fork......you can't tell me that a 33 inch moose with three browtines was doing much breeding, if any at all....but i can tell you he was going to be a big moose when he reached his peak...atleast have good palmation down low when he reached 50....this 3 or 4 brow tine regulation is letting the bulls with the two "crab claw" browtines grow up and do the breeding which makes more of them.....i see more two browtiners over fifty than any other from most parts of the state......this regulation is only enabling the genetics of inferior moose to prosper
                        "early to bed, early to rise, fish like hell, and make up lies"

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                        • #13
                          antler width range finder

                          I've heard rumor of a range finder that can be used to measure antler span. Anyone heard or seen one or know the brand name?
                          Dave

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sharksinthesalsa View Post
                            just make it fifty and spike/fork......you can't tell me that a 33 inch moose with three browtines was doing much breeding, if any at all....but i can tell you he was going to be a big moose when he reached his peak...atleast have good palmation down low when he reached 50....this 3 or 4 brow tine regulation is letting the bulls with the two "crab claw" browtines grow up and do the breeding which makes more of them.....i see more two browtiners over fifty than any other from most parts of the state......this regulation is only enabling the genetics of inferior moose to prosper

                            Hmmm.....I'd actually like to see it go the other way....Make it brow tines or spike/fork only and get rid of the 50" thing. I think a LOT more illegal moose would make it through the season since folks wouldn't be tempted to guess at width (and come up short...). Brow tines are a for sure.

                            If there is a 70" bull running around with only two brows....oh well, he gets a pass .


                            Eagle...

                            The rangefinder with the width at distance feature is a Leupold product I believe. I don't remember the model, but I did see it advertised a while back.
                            AKmud
                            sigpic


                            The porcupine is a peaceful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AKmud View Post
                              Hmmm.....I'd actually like to see it go the other way....Make it brow tines or spike/fork only and get rid of the 50" thing. I think a LOT more illegal moose would make it through the season since folks wouldn't be tempted to guess at width (and come up short...). Brow tines are a for sure.
                              Stole the words out of my mouth.

                              There are many sub-legal bulls killed every year on the basis of the 50" rule. There shouldn't be any sub-legal bulls killed if someone is basing their decision on brow tines. There are certainly hunters who are skilled in determining 50", but many of us (myself included) can't tell the difference between a 49" and a 51" bull in the field. Unless the bull is an absolute hog, there's no way I am pulling the trigger on something that doesn't have the requisite number of brown tines. If any change in the law, I'd drop the width provision (along with the growth rings provision on rams, while we're at it).

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