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  • Legal moose, yes or no?

    Saturday night I came upon two bulls while out hunting. One looked like a large calf, while the other one was quite a bit larger. These two bulls were not together, yet they both sported the same type of antler setup, or lack thereof. Each moose had a "knob" or a large bump, roughly about 2-3 inches long in velvet, and that was it. Would these two guys fall under the spike-fork or no?

  • #2
    Legal

    Should be. There is no real length requirement for a spike. It has to be longer than it is wide and over 1" long to be considered a point. The way you describe it "2-3 inches long" I think it would be legal.
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peaceful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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    • #3
      Nope

      Not legal in my book. It is probably this years moose and just has larger than normal first year growth.

      http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/regul...fs/mooseid.pdf

      The 1" by 1" reference is for browtine points. IT has to project from the antler.

      There are some gray areas in the F&D definiation of legal. A fellow over here last year shot a spike/fork and it took 4-5 calls from our enforcement officer to find out if it was legal. In the end, the hunter was allowed to keep the meat but the antlers were turned over as demonstration samples.

      I could be wrong............... but let it grow a year.

      Patriot Life Member NRA
      Life Member Veterans of Foreign Wars
      Life Member Disabled American Veterans


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      • #4
        This is why I passed on these two moose, just because I wasn't sure. I watched them both for quite some time in my 10x40 Zeiss Classic binoculars, so I had plenty of clarity at what I was looking at. I've had similiar responses from other people that I've talked to about this, with some saying yes and others saying no.

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        • #5
          case law....

          My brother in law had his bull seized by F&G for this same argument. He shot a small bull with about 2" of antler growth. Someone called F&G on him and they flew a helicopter to his kill site and took his bull and cited him for an illegal animal. He fought F&G in court and it was determined that his small bull was legal and he had what was left of the meat (and antlers) returned to him.

          I wouldn't have any problem taking a 3-4" spiked animal.
          AKmud
          sigpic


          The porcupine is a peaceful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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          • #6
            Illegal Bull

            Moose like this are described in the ADFG video, "Is This Moose Legal?". You can purchase the video either in VHS or DVD from ADFG here in Anchorage. These are bull calves, and what you're seeing is the pedicel, or the base of what will be an antler next year. These are the sort of bulls ADFG is trying to protect with the spike-fork 50" regulation.

            -Mike
            Michael Strahan
            Site Owner
            Alaska Hunt Consultant
            1 (907) 229-4501

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            • #7
              What did I tell you when you called me. What you diden't belive me. I'm just glad you diden't shoot.
              Shoot to kill, kill to eat!

              http://adventuremongers.com/index.ph...id=40&catid=13

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              • #8
                ID of a point

                Originally posted by Daveinthebush View Post
                Not legal in my book. It is probably this years moose and just has larger than normal first year growth.

                http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/regul...fs/mooseid.pdf

                The 1" by 1" reference is for browtine points. IT has to project from the antler.

                There are some gray areas in the F&D definiation of legal. A fellow over here last year shot a spike/fork and it took 4-5 calls from our enforcement officer to find out if it was legal. In the end, the hunter was allowed to keep the meat but the antlers were turned over as demonstration samples.

                I could be wrong............... but let it grow a year.
                Daveinthebush- I am not disputing the spike/fork being shot and multiple calls being made. That happens. My question is about the 1" X 1" reference that you made. A point or tine is a projection of at least 1" long and is longer than it is wide when measured from the tip. I cannot see anything anywhere indicating that's it just for browtines as you mentioned. A point is a point (by definition) regardless of antler configuration or where that point is on the head. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

                Matt-The bulls that you stated before are (IMO) illegal. The littlest bull could fall under the first year calf bull requirement, regardless on what's on his head, he would be illegal if he were a calf. OR if he's a genetically defunct year old or 2yo, his antlers are still illegal by definition. They're wider than they are long when measured from the tip, and that's illegal. The same goes for the bigger of the 2. You did the right thing by not shooting.

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                • #9
                  good job

                  I really don't know if they were legal. I just want to applaud you for not shooting when in doubt. If more hunters followed this ethic, we'd have a lot more legal game to shoot at. Especially sheep. I've worked in taxidermy and sporting goods for many years (not any more) and have heard a lot of 'it was so close I had to' stories. Really bums me out. If EVERYONE followed the rules, and like you, didn't shoot unless they were sure it was legal, there would be a lot more truly legal critters out there. Thanks for doing the right thing, and do your best to instill these ethics in others.

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                  • #10
                    If the projection is on the brow palm it is a tine.

                    If the projection is on the main palm, it is a point.

                    The 1" description from F&G is a projection from the antler in whole, not the skull of the animal and describes points and tine length.

                    Patriot Life Member NRA
                    Life Member Veterans of Foreign Wars
                    Life Member Disabled American Veterans


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                    • #11
                      the rest of the story...

                      You also have to look at the rest of the description. The immature calves are described in the regs as having "skin and hair" over this bump. The bulls in question were described as being in "velvet" which is a different story.

                      You absolutely did the right thing by not shooting if you were in question. Too bad you didn't get a photo. Trying to figure out if an animal is legal by a few descriptive words is nearly impossible if the animal is marginal.
                      AKmud
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                      The porcupine is a peaceful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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                      • #12
                        no i talked to fish and game because i saw a yearling with 2 inch nobs out of his head with full velvet and how he explained it was that if there is antler with no velvet it is legal. so i believe the smallest forks will be 4 inches or so.. so the knobs will not be legal. also first year moose are not legal in spike/fork/50" areas.
                        NRA life Member JVJ

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                        • #13
                          Another dead give away

                          Is most of the time those same bulls will have a greyish looking shouldar patch. That is definately a young yearling.

                          I wont say always but it is something to look for.

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                          • #14
                            tines and points

                            Originally posted by Daveinthebush View Post
                            If the projection is on the brow palm it is a tine.

                            If the projection is on the main palm, it is a point.

                            The 1" description from F&G is a projection from the antler in whole, not the skull of the animal and describes points and tine length.
                            I'm sorry man, I still disagree. Let me explain myself. (Pg 30 of the reg's) "In the Identifying a point OR tine": A point OR tine (meaning one OR the other) is an antler projection (from the palm OR brow) at least one inch long, and longer than it is wide, with the width measured one inch or more from the tip. If tine and point were different, then there would be two (2) definitions and they wouldn't have "OR" seperating point/tine. But there isn't. They are one in the same. If a 60" bull has 15 points on one side and 16 on the other, were the brow tines counted? You bet your ***** they were. Catch my drift? Here's another one. Check out pg 30 of the reg's. Look at the single antler at the bottom left side of the page. That antler is broken down into categories. Now read the definition block to the right of that antler. The last sentence says that " a TINE originating in or AFTER this bay is not a brow tine". If it's not a brow tine, then what is it? It's an antler tine OR point. The yellow box also on pg 30 states "counting main palm points". There's 2 paragraphs on the same page of the reg's saying palms can have tines OR points. See where I'm going with this? I believe (IMHO) that it is a slang term that got published in the reg's and it confuses people. (Not like most folks don't need a lawyer to cypher some of that stuff) Anyways, please correct/enlighten/educate me if I'm all disconboobliated on this!!! RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED!!!!!!!!

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                            • #15
                              correction

                              I stand corrected. I've been brought up to speed. A brow projection IS a tine. A palm projection IS a point. BUT- the browtine tip is called a "browtine point". I either misread Dave or read it right and didn't understand. Sorry for adding anymore confusion.

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