Pioneer Xstream for caribou and moose

[anchorrivercrowds]

Wow, very impressive Larry. That might be one of the most impressive videos you've made. I've been toying with the idea of buying a pioneer extreme for several years now. That video might have just sold me on the idea. How much weight did you have in the boat Larry? By my estimate I'm guessing around 1600 to 1700 lbs. Impressive.

question is what is it drawing with 1500 on board? 5-6 inches? 48" wide for 12 foot of it's length? 16 overall?

[Larry Bartlett]

With 1800-lbs evenly distributed the waterline comes to the center of the tubes, so 8" draft, so yeah you're about right on with 1500 on board. I've carried as much as 2000-lbs keeping the bail hole caps screwed down tight to keep hull dry and maximize flotation.

yes, once fully inflated it tapes out at around 47" if the slings are taught. The length is a little over 16' finished out, but the entire surface is designed for use and the bow and stern tubes are tapered larger diam for hauling weight on the ends of the boat.

[anchorrivercrowds]

With 1800-lbs evenly distributed the waterline comes to the center of the tubes, so 8" draft, so yeah you're about right on with 1500 on board. I've carried as much as 2000-lbs keeping the bail hole caps screwed down tight to keep hull dry and maximize flotation.

yes, once fully inflated it tapes out at around 47" if the slings are taught. The length is a little over 16' finished out, but the entire surface is designed for use and the bow and stern tubes are tapered larger diam for hauling weight on the ends of the boat.

anyone developed a decent upriver game with an inflatable? Tough one huh? Hull flexes too much with stern power? How are they simply being lined? They skate well?... light loaded probably decent huh?

I've used a canoe for years... considering getting away from the scheduled and predictable near-misses coming out every year fully loaded in white water.

[kwackkillncrew]

i just posted a thread asking about if anyone has lined a raft like the pioneer or the kork. We have both but thinking of taking the cork since its lighter.

[Larry Bartlett]

Lining a raft or canoe upstream can be tricky but it's doable if you rig it properly.

The Pristine Ventures designs have lots of loop discs every 6" around the top of the tubes for securing the suspension straps (seat and cargo slings). These every six inch points are great for wedging a paddle blade between and underneath the perimeter line. The person lining the raft then angles the paddle shaft at a 10-11 o'clock position while holding the bowline tight in the other hand. By holding the bowline one controls the raft as the paddle is used to leverage the craft upstream. The bowline hand draws the craft toward the shore being lined as the paddle hand pushes the craft upstream.

It takes practice and patience. Easier with two people when lining the Pioneer, but the Kork, Legend and PR49 are easy peasy.

Lining by definition is simply walking the raft upstream, either mechanically (leverage) or physically. Most of the miles I've "lined" upstream have been me walking with raft in tow via the bowline. I only deploy the mechanical leverage when it's too deep to walk upstream and too swift to paddle upstream, so those are short stents usually. Once able, i'll walk the shallowest sections and then ferry across the river as the stream snakes left and right (low-beach vs high-bank).

Hope this makes sense.

[anchorrivercrowds]

Lining a raft or canoe upstream can be tricky but it's doable if you rig it properly.

The Pristine Ventures designs have lots of loop discs every 6" around the top of the tubes for securing the suspension straps (seat and cargo slings). These every six inch points are great for wedging a paddle blade between and underneath the perimeter line. The person lining the raft then angles the paddle shaft at a 10-11 o'clock position while holding the bowline tight in the other hand. By holding the bowline one controls the raft as the paddle is used to leverage the craft upstream. The bowline hand draws the craft toward the shore being lined as the paddle hand pushes the craft upstream.

It takes practice and patience. Easier with two people when lining the Pioneer, but the Kork, Legend and PR49 are easy peasy.

Lining by definition is simply walking the raft upstream, either mechanically (leverage) or physically. Most of the miles I've "lined" upstream have been me walking with raft in tow via the bowline. I only deploy the mechanical leverage when it's too deep to walk upstream and too swift to paddle upstream, so those are short stents usually. Once able, i'll walk the shallowest sections and then ferry across the river as the stream snakes left and right (low-beach vs high-bank).

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks Larry... how does the PP/cork do under power upstream?

I've lined upriver 15 miles the last 10 years, so fairly familiar with the issues. This last Fall was interesting with the big water levels... almost no bank to walk, and too powerful to run against. Took three full days.

Then there is floating out with a moose(if lucky enough), with a PR49 lashed to the bow, hard to steer, and the almost yearly "near-misses" with sweepers, rocks, and whitewater.

I went from a 17 foot Wenona, to a 20 foot tripper. FAR better stability...but far harder to drag upriver(though it does track far straighter), and power once in the ox bows(2.5 Suzuki). Then the three portages..lol

A raft with a rowing frame would be nice coming out.... not sure of the feasibility of getting it upriver.

the mounts for the PP require a 20 inch shaft? or the 15?

[Ridgerat]

I know this isn’t the swap-meet section, but since were talking about mounts, I have a new in the box mount for the Pioneer X-treme that I’m never going to use since I built a custom mount off the corner of a rowing frame. If anyone needs one, and Larry doesn’t have one in stock, shoot me an IM and we can work out a sale or swap.

[anchorrivercrowds]

I know this isn’t the swap-meet section, but since were talking about mounts, I have a new in the box mount for the Pioneer X-treme that I’m never going to use since I built a custom mount off the corner of a rowing frame. If anyone needs one, and Larry doesn’t have one in stock, shoot me an IM and we can work out a sale or swap.

well then heck, not going to add what size outboard, and how it performs? Can you move up river? How far below the bottom of the raft is the skeg, and prop?


Thanks

[Ridgerat]

Sorry anchor, I don't have a tremendous amount to contribute. But I can tell you what little I do know. I mounted a 2.3 Honda 4-stroke 20" shaft on my rowing frame. I fabricated the mount so the motor cavitation plate would be right at water line with a light load (500 lbs ish). I have not tried to go upriver with it, and have not tested it very much on just 1 boat, but we ran ~100 miles down river with 2 Pioneers lashed together like a cat. With a 10 day camp, 2 large men and 1 large moose we were able to increase our downriver speed ~6 mph, which was much faster than I anticipated it would be. I am not great at using or posting to this forum, if you want some pictures ro video of the set-up I made shoot me a text and I will be happy to share, 9072522294

[anchorrivercrowds]

Sorry anchor, I don't have a tremendous amount to contribute. But I can tell you what little I do know. I mounted a 2.3 Honda 4-stroke 20" shaft on my rowing frame. I fabricated the mount so the motor cavitation plate would be right at water line with a light load (500 lbs ish). I have not tried to go upriver with it, and have not tested it very much on just 1 boat, but we ran ~100 miles down river with 2 Pioneers lashed together like a cat. With a 10 day camp, 2 large men and 1 large moose we were able to increase our downriver speed ~6 mph, which was much faster than I anticipated it would be. I am not great at using or posting to this forum, if you want some pictures ro video of the set-up I made shoot me a text and I will be happy to share, 9072522294

text coming... nice... similar to what I've done with my canoe. My 2.5 side mounted has the skeg only slightly below the canoe bottom, so it hits fewer rocks... BUT, its really hard at time to get going, and I lack power(last year with high waters)...

I was playing with the idea of going 15 inch shaft(more stable with the power head lower), but don't think that is the answer... maybe I split the difference, mount a 6 HP a bit lower, and tilt it a bit.

Thanks...

[CapnMike]

Anybody ever tried any of these prop guard units. Looks like they'd be easy to make.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/mac-s...rd--P011025673
http://www.propguardtech.com/custom.html