Excellent presentation by ABA

[Vince]

Well i sat and listened to the ABA presentation at the BOG meeting today. i will say it was a very thorough and thought out presentation.

regarding the prop to require bow hunting certs over black bear bait. i was surprised that the ABA did not support it as a requirement.. i commend them on that on one stance as not making additional requirements for hunters. and am surprised at it in the fact that..... I guess i felt they would encourage the certification and hunter education more for the benefit of hunters and the game.


of the different Orgs i have listened to the last to days testify... here is one that stands out beyond the rest, in looking out for the bow hunting sport, subsistence users, as well the game that is chased, in the entirety of a hunting user group and resource.. to many folks are looking for THEIR piece of it all... The ABA.. came across as looking out for the hunter.. they are not the only one but they are the ones that stood out to me as a listener the most.

my thanks and congratulations to them...


unfortunately .... to many folks i am talking to feel that testimony at the hearing.. .is for naught... and they are being allowed the required lip service.. my take on the meetings so far is that the board has their minds made up on various issues.. and at this point are not in earnest considering the publics views, outside the ones they want to hear.

[gogoalie]

ABA is PRO-subsistence now?

"here is one that stands out beyond the rest, in looking out for the bow hunting sport, subsistence users, as well the game that is chased, in the entirety of a hunting user group and resource.."


Is that what your saying Vince?

[Vince]

was stating my observations... and opinion.. and i use the term subsistence in the term of harvest, rather then sport what they are pro or not pro is got nothing to do with me... i was impressed by the presentation and the fact that they did not appear to have an agenda out side the arena.

[martentrapper]

Goalie, what does one, or a group, have to do or say to be "pro" subsistence?

[gogoalie]

Well, the whole argument...

against Title 8 of ANILCA is what the ABA, AOC, NRA & other groups support, which in my view has been the whole crux as to the reason why I won't join any of the aformentioned groups...untill the ABA comes out & says, hey, you rural guys can have first crack at fishing & hunting there on the Yukon, in a time of shortage prior to any trophy hunters we have on the ABA board, then, & maybe then will they be "pro subsistence"...

now lets not hijack this thread, as Vince did put this up as an FYI...I only thought that the ABA was coming out in support of title 8...but I guess I can keep on dreaming...

[Alaska Gray]

against Title 8 of ANILCA is what the ABA, AOC, NRA & other groups support, which in my view has been the whole crux as to the reason why I won't join any of the aformentioned groups...untill the ABA comes out & says, hey, you rural guys can have first crack at fishing & hunting there on the Yukon, in a time of shortage prior to any trophy hunters we have on the ABA board, then, & maybe then will they be "pro subsistence"...

now lets not hijack this thread, as Vince did put this up as an FYI...I only thought that the ABA was coming out in support of title 8...but I guess I can keep on dreaming...

OH boy where do I start with you?????You may believe what ever you want. It's your story and you can tell it how ever you want. To call us out and say we are not pro subsistence is a lie. On subsistence hunting there are many parts to it and if one group doesn't agree to one part does that make them against subsistence? I think not. Understand you can't always get your way. Sometimes you have to give up something to get something in life. Please check your facts out before throwing people under the bus. It looks foolish.

And last thing. The ABA offered a reward for information regarding the Caribou slaughter up north. We stepped up to the plate!!!!!

[Vince]

wow gary... that has to be one of the longest post you have written.. i think G man was mistaken by my first post... and only replied to MT... we all know there are a lot of hard feeling about subsistance Vs sport hunting.. but i think the majority of us do it for the same reason.

[homerdave]

after jack's presentation we (jack, mark and me) all went to lunch together. though we don't agree on everything, we certainly found that we agree on far more than we don't.
jack is a really good guy, i enjoyed getting to know him better.

[Alaska Gray]

after jack's presentation we (jack, mark and me) all went to lunch together. though we don't agree on everything, we certainly found that we agree on far more than we don't.
jack is a really good guy, i enjoyed getting to know him better.

I agree with you. Even in the ABA we don't agree on everything, but we still work to make Alaska a better place for our kids hunt one day.

[Alaska Gray]

wow gary... that has to be one of the longest post you have written.. i think G man was mistaken by my first post... and only replied to MT... we all know there are a lot of hard feeling about subsistance Vs sport hunting.. but i think the majority of us do it for the same reason.

LOL. I try to keep it short...

[martentrapper]

Goalie, title 8 of Anilca only applies on federal lands. Vince was posting about the ABA presentation at the BoG meeting. The BoG is a STATE entity and only concerned with state regs. Both fed and state regs have mechanisms to protect subsistence use.
On another thread, goalie, you mentioned an interest in guiding. Might not want to bash the very groups that you might be looking to for clients if you ever do get into guiding.

[gogoalie]

"To call us out and say we are not pro subsistence is a lie."

Oh yeah, then what's all this???:


"Since 1978 the ABA has been involved in the fight to protect all citizens' rights to equal access to fish and game in Alaska. In 1978 and 1979 the ABA lobbied concerning the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) and the National Monuments issue to defeat Federal legislation which would close Federal lands in Alaska to hunting and establish a rural preference for subsistence users of natural resources. The ABA created their own "Alaskan Bowhunters Legal Defense Fund" specifically to participate in the 1990 challenge to ANILCA. The ABA joined Sam McDowell, the A.O. C. and about 25 other groups or plaintiffs in this lawsuit. The basic tenants of the lawsuit are that all people not just a special class of rural Alaskans -should have equal access to Alaska's fish and game, and that ANILCA violates Alaska's State Constitution which guarantees that ".fish and wildlife and waters are reserved to the people for common use." The ABA opposes any amendment to Alaska's constitution which would allow a rural preference for fish and game rights. The club fought the Governor's efforts to add a "Rural Preference" amendment to the state constitution."

I am sorry Gary, but I'll defer my "hunting subsistence" rights to anyone who's rural, should I ever live in Anchroage again...:eek:, because I know, it's the "right" thing to do...(we could get into the argument here, but I've made my counter point that you called me a liar, and I ain't gunna forget that!)

"Goalie, title 8 of Anilca only applies on federal lands. Vince was posting about the ABA presentation at the BoG meeting. The BoG is a STATE entity and only concerned with state regs."

MT, the above quotations are directly from the ABA website, & it's clear that the ABA is AGAINST a rural prefrerence to subsistence on FEDERAL lands...Oh gee, all the ABA officers won't get thier trophy moose off the Innoko, YK Delta, or other Refuges...& I wouldn't think than any of the officers of the ABA would want me as thier guide, should I ever CONSIDER becomeing one...

[martentrapper]

Shouldn't be a problem for ABA officers to get their trophy moose in your backyard, goalie. Neither Y-K or Innoko are under any current closures to non locals for moose.
Your still confusing fed and state regs. Argue with Gary on state issues. When the subsistence board meets next jan. you can argue fed regs.

[Vince]

holy crap... i am glad to have started an argument.. all i wanted to say was i heard a good presentation.. some times i wish i could lock my own threads... lol...

[Michael]

I guess I'm not clear on the terms rural and subsistence and what they have to do with each other. I thought subsistence was putting food on my families table. I didn't know I had to be rural to do that. I have a hard time getting my brain around the term rural as well. What exactly is rural? I've been told it's "The Bush". I worked in Bethel and Kotzebue for awhile and I didn't feel particularly rural, though I did feel a little isolated. Maybe Sutton is rural, even though it's not quite so isolated. How about Glennallen and Tok.

If someone could explain some of this to me I would appreciate it.