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  • fishNphysician
    replied
    White gums = coho if the fish had spots ( unless it was a humpy, but those are BIG oval spots). The other possibility for light gums is an early chum.

    BTW you don't need to cut a king to determine if it is a white one. Simply lift up the bottom of the gill cover just enough to expose the translucent area at the apex of the collar. If you see red flesh thru the clear skin, then it's not a white king.

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  • BrownBear
    replied
    Not that I've ever seen. Along with others I've looked really hard for any exterior sign that a king is white, but without luck.

    Basically, if the gums weren't black I'd put long money that your friends' fish wasn't a king. But to know if it was white you would have to get out your knife.

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  • Tom
    replied
    Do white kings also have white mouths and gums? I was out at the Little Su today and some friends caught what we thought was a little king. A heated debate ensued because the mouth and gums were white. They didn't fillet it while I was there so I didn't see the color of the meat.

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  • BrownBear
    replied
    Thanks! I wasn't aware of this, probably because I diverged away from med school. Wonderful family photo with your daughter, BTW.

    Delighted to see that collar in your final photo. It amazed and frankly sickens me to see people throw them away, as well as the bellies. They're the best part of any salmon!

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  • fishNphysician
    replied
    biology/genetics lesson...

    Genetic Mosaic:

    DEFN: An organism in which different cells contain different genetic sequence. This can be the result of a mutation during development or fusion of embryos at an early developmental stage (chimera).

    ...........................................

    And yes, this happens in humans, too. How about this marbled fudge-sicle?




    I have cut kings with this marbled appearance in their flesh. Didn't have digital camera capability at the time, so I don't have a pic.

    However, here are some pics of a chrome bright hen king I caught in the mouth of the Columbia River in Aug 2005... chrome on the outside but with flesh that looked like an "unmarbled creamsicle". Check it out:





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  • Brian M
    replied
    Hmm...degree in biology here, yet unfamiliar with that term as well. Since all of the fish's cells have the same DNA, would it therefore be a difference in gene expression? Any idea on the specifics on why the gene for carotenoid pigment would be expressed in some cells and not others? Environment can affect gene expression, but it's usually on an organism level, not specific to regions of the body. Interesting...

    -Brian

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  • BrownBear
    replied
    Lotsa genetics in my background, and I've never heard of a "genetic mosaic." Oh well. Good to eat, whatever you believe.

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  • fishNphysician
    replied
    I believe the "marbled" or "creamsicle" flesh in some kings indicates that these fish are probably genetic mosaics... that is some of the cells have the enzyme necessary to store the carotenoid pigments and others do not.

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  • BrownBear
    replied
    What about?

    Originally posted by fishNphysician
    The ability of a salmon to store the red-orange pigment carotene in its fat cells is controlled genetically. So a sockeye salmon (red) stores carotene in its fat cells, and a chum salmon metabolizes it into a colorless Vitamin A. For a chinook salmon, flesh color is determined by two genes in a duplicate recessive gene interaction. Here is a list that will help explain this. It comes from an ADF&G publication. The genotype is the combination of capital and small case letters and the flesh color is defined.

    AA,BB -red flesh color,

    AABb - red,
    AA,bb - white,
    Aa,BB - red,
    Aa,Bb - red,
    Aa,bb - white,
    aa,BB-white,
    aa,Bb-white,
    aa,bb - white.

    You can see from this that if a dominant gene (A and B) are both present then the flesh color is red.

    The genes for white kings are rare in Alaska. A higher percentage is found in the Pacific Northwest.

    How red a fish is or just a pink color depends on the amount of pigment in their diet. However, a white king cannot become a red king no matter the diet because the genes controlling the process are not available.

    I've seen and read this and understand what it says, but it doesn't answer one question for me: What about the partial whites? Ive caught them that were half and half (almost always front half white and back half red), mottled (usually all white in the front half, mottled in the belly, and red back of the ribs), and partials. The last "partial" I caught was all white except for about 4 inches at the caudal peduncle.

    Interesting speculation, but it doesn't change the fact that they sure are different on the table! We're talking silvery bright fish with WHITE flesh. I know folks who call silvery colored kings "whites" simply because the skin's not red, and without regard for the flesh color. And some folks think "white" kings are those bright cherry red ones on the spawning grounds with flesh faded to white. Bleah!!!!!

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  • Water_Gremlin
    replied
    I tell you what, I learn something every day. I didnt know there was a white king.

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  • yukon
    replied
    Good evening doc!

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  • fishNphysician
    replied
    white king pics.... can you say S-T-U-M-P-Y ?

    ..........

    [ATTACH]240[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]242[/ATTACH]

    Leave a comment:


  • wildog
    replied
    Originally posted by fishNphysician
    The ability of a salmon to store the red-orange pigment carotene in its fat cells is controlled genetically. So a sockeye salmon (red) stores carotene in its fat cells, and a chum salmon metabolizes it into a colorless Vitamin A. For a chinook salmon, flesh color is determined by two genes in a duplicate recessive gene interaction. Here is a list that will help explain this. It comes from an ADF&G publication. The genotype is the combination of capital and small case letters and the flesh color is defined.

    AA,BB -red flesh color,

    AABb - red,
    AA,bb - white,
    Aa,BB - red,
    Aa,Bb - red,
    Aa,bb - white,
    aa,BB-white,
    aa,Bb-white,
    aa,bb - white.

    You can see from this that if a dominant gene (A and B) are both present then the flesh color is red.

    The genes for white kings are rare in Alaska. A higher percentage is found in the Pacific Northwest.

    How red a fish is or just a pink color depends on the amount of pigment in their diet. However, a white king cannot become a red king no matter the diet because the genes controlling the process are not available.

    White Kings must me more prevalent in WA because I have caught Kings my entire life in OR and have never seen or heard of one until I moved to AK last year, and here they are spoken of commonly.

    Leave a comment:


  • fishNphysician
    replied
    Originally posted by viktor
    Raw thinly sliced fresh white king is some of the best sushi in the world. It has far superior flavor and texture then the red king and is a delicasy in the sushi houses, Chef
    I'm sure the reason they are so in demand among the sushi chefs is the fat content. These white kings are absolute butterballs.... both inside and out.... built like stumpy footballs and just dripping with oil.... even the back pieces!

    Makes me think that the enzyme needed to store carotene in the fat cells has something to do with their overall lipid metabolism and their ability to store massive amounts of fat in their flesh.

    BTW, smoked collars from a white king are to die for.

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  • viktor
    replied
    white king sashimi

    Raw thinly sliced fresh white king is some of the best sushi in the world. It has far superior flavor and texture then the red king and is a delicasy in the sushi houses, Chef

    Leave a comment:

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