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  • Nerka
    replied
    correction to my post

    I made a mistake in my post. I wanted to say 70% of the sockeye are caught in the set nets - not make it to the river. Sorry - I find I am reading over my words instead of editing like I should.

    Leave a comment:


  • GEC1000
    replied
    Everyone has an agenda

    Each of us, in one way or another, have special interests. Understanding this is the first step toward enlightenment. One solution to informed conversation is to be ready to learn and be willing to teach. To do this we must each maintain an open mind.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nerka
    replied
    fish creek facts

    The fish creek sockeye return failure was not the result of Commercial fisherman. Fish creek and the Big Lake have experienced significant changes in there ability to produce fish. ADF&G did studies on the lake and a number of things came out. My memory may be off alittle here but development around the lake has increased nutrients, increased plant growth had reduced oxygen levels, the water control structure for home owners had a negative impact on spawning areas at the outlet of the lake, and the list went on including ADF&G eliminating a stock of natural sockeye above the hatchery location ( they did not want disease in the water supply). You can check all this out at the local office of ADF&G in Palmer. Also, ask for the tagging studies on coho and you will see the exploitation rates in the comercial fisheries not did overharvest this system. Poor production from the lake reduced the returns.

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  • Adventures
    replied
    how about fish creek? (Knik)

    Used to be a blast fishing for silvers down there. However when the commercial fisheries were there they had the net from shore to shore and the only fish that got through were very small (not good for genetics).
    The place used to have so many fish you could dip net there, but now they only let us sportfish on weekends after the 12th of Augus when the majority of the fish will be gone by then (checked fish count from last 2 years on AF&G website)
    Now then, how do you justify depleting a fishery so badly that it goes from extreme feast to extreme famine in just 5 years?

    I don't really care if i get to dipnet there but actually fishing the stream when there are salmon there would be a plus.

    Justin

    Leave a comment:


  • Nerka
    replied
    1) When the nets go down the fish don't make it into the river. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against commercial fishing.

    This is a true statement that some fish do not make it to the river. However, in ADF&G models they indicate 70% of the fish in the set nets do enter the river - even during a commercial period.

    2) I just think F&G over reacted a little when they closed the river to all forms of fishing last week.

    This is probably true if there was no management plans. In the 1980's the ADF&G would close the commercial fisheries and not the sport fisheries unless two regular commercial closures took place. They needed to close the commercial fishery and PU fishery as they put a high exploitation rate on the stocks. For example, the PU fishery, because it uses gill net on the hoop, is very effective - up to 30% of the return on some days. Unfortunately, local biologist no longer make the calls and the management plans limit options. They had no choice this year.

    3) Why didn't F&G start by just putting commercial fishing on hold for a few days to see what was going on with this run?

    See the answer above.

    4) I personally don't think that sport fisherman alone have all that great of an impact on the overall # of fish that make it to their spawning grounds, commercial fisherman do.

    This is not supported by fact. The upriver sport fish harvest takes over 200,000 fish so it can take the spwaning escapement below the goals for the river. The return this year came off one of the years where the sport fishery above the counters harvested more fish than they should have - the spawning escapement was about 400,000 fish instead of the 500,000 stated in the plans.
    5) Another personal opinion is that F&G didn't want to deal with all those commercial fisherman complaining about "why do we have to stop fishing but you continue to let the sport fisherman fish"?

    This is not a supported by facts. ADF&G closes the commercial fisheries all the time and listens to the debate why that should or should not have happened. Remember in the first closure ADF&G left the sport fishery open with a one fish bag limit. No other user was allowed to harvest a sockeye except sport fisherman. The only closed the sport fishery when they thought the one fish bag limit was a threat. So the sport fishery had a priority use this year for a few days.

    6) I think that F&G's decision to temporarily stop sport fishing had more to do with politics than the idea that this run could not support even that kind of pressure. Not saying that I am right, just saying that this is my opinion.

    Again, this is not supported by facts. ADF&G run models indicated that 400,000 to 800,000 Kenai fish were left when they made the second closure. At 400,000 they would have just made the goal. At 800,000 there are fish still to harvest. ADF&G is mandated in this situation to make the goal. They knew a closure would bring fish into the river and they could harvest any surplus on the back side of the run. This is exactly what they are doing. It is risk adverse management and in this case fully supportable.

    Hope this helps the discussion. I am not trying to put anyone down with these facts and discussion points. This fishery is complex so the information above is offered for your use. I checked with ADF&G on why they did certain things and it makes sense in the big picture.

    Taking the grandsons trout fishing so have to run.



    Leave a comment:


  • AK Troutbum
    replied
    I stand corrected

    Your absolutely right Marcus. When the nets go down not all the reds are caught, some actually do make it into the river. Thanks for the correction.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Opinions versus facts. . .

    Originally posted by AkHunter45
    Read his post Marcus, they are all just his OPINIONS, which he is entitled too. Seems to me people can't have a conversation in this forum (Fishing) without holding a degree in fishery's management without you chiming in with your "comments"........"ad nauseum"........give me a break.
    Thanks, AkHunter45, and to all my apologies for if I sound contentious. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Some opinions are based on special interests, some on prejudice, some on facts, and some on a combination of these and more. What is wrong with asking that opinion be based on facts and data? I am contending for rational, informed discussion that's all.

    Cook Inlet fisheries are the most contentious in the state a fact made plain by Commission Campbell in a meeting down here last week. All I'm asking is that before bashing ADF&G, the gill nets, the guides or whomever, that one take the time and trouble to become informed, taking one's questions to the managers themselves for perspective and correction if needed. What can possibly be accomplished by ill-informed opinion except further fueling the fires of contention?

    Opinions and policies based on facts and data help us decide contentious issues as neighbors, not as enemies.

    Leave a comment:


  • AkHunter45
    replied
    Should be good I would think, I was going to head down that way to fish the Russian but with the current weather forecasts I think I will wait.

    Leave a comment:


  • SALMON FAN
    replied
    Meanwhile back at the river....

    Hey guys, I wonder if any new reports are coming in on today's dipnetting on the Kenai?

    Leave a comment:


  • fishermann222
    replied
    fishing and happieness

    Fishing is fun, talking about fishing is fun, asking questions about and learning more about fishing is fun. If it is not fun for you to fish, then buy your fish, it is a HECK of a lot cheaper. If talking about fishing gets you worked up? Then don't talk about it, I would hate to have you get a heart attack from getting worked up discussing fishing. If you already know it all and don't need to learn anymore, then why be here at all?

    Leave a comment:


  • fullkurl
    replied
    me three..

    Geez guys,
    I'm with these fellas, lighten up. Were all on the same side. Ties some flies, and breathe in, breathe out......

    Its FISHING. No ones asking to date your teenage daughter.

    Leave a comment:


  • fishermann222
    replied
    akhunter45

    I agree with you, I have been watching many of the threads on here lately and people are really attacking other people for their opinions. Marcus I do not know you so I am not going to make any assumptions about you. But I would like to let you know that when I read your posts you really come across as argumentative and unwilling to listen to others on the forum. If you are not this way in person that is great, I just thought you may like to know how you come across to the thousands of people who read these forums.

    Leave a comment:


  • AkHunter45
    replied
    Read his post Marcus, they are all just his OPINIONS, which he is entitled too. Seems to me people can't have a conversation in this forum (Fishing) without holding a degree in fishery's management without you chiming in with your "comments"........"ad nauseum"........give me a break.
    Last edited by AkHunter45; 07-31-2006, 10:21.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Getting informed. . .

    1) When the nets go down the fish don't make it into the river. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against commercial fishing.
    2) I just think F&G over reacted a little when they closed the river to all forms of fishing last week.
    3) Why didn't F&G start by just putting commercial fishing on hold for a few days to see what was going on with this run?
    4) I personally don't think that sport fisherman alone have all that great of an impact on the overall # of fish that make it to their spawning grounds, commercial fisherman do.
    5) Another personal opinion is that F&G didn't want to deal with all those commercial fisherman complaining about "why do we have to stop fishing but you continue to let the sport fisherman fish"?
    6) I think that F&G's decision to temporarily stop sport fishing had more to do with politics than the idea that this run could not support even that kind of pressure. Not saying that I am right, just saying that this is my opinion.[


    Did you bother to stop in, call, or e-mail your area ADF&G biologists in an effort to understand management plans and why they made their decisions? Or is it easier to just criticize, expressing ill-informed notions that accomplish nothing except to fuel the fires of controversy?

    For instance, #1 is silly. When the nets are in the water, some fish still make it into the river. Overall, do you know what percentage of the runs are allocated to the river? What percentage to the gill nets? Do you know how run size and timing affect those percentages? Concerning #2, did you ask our biologists why? Concerning #3, did you ask? Concerning #4, do you have data backing up your opinion? And so on. . . ad nauseum. . .

    Personally, I think our biologists, given the constraints under which they must work, do a fine job of managing Alaska's fisheries. Ill-informed, divisive, special interest opinions are counter-productive.

    To Sockeye Charlie: Call 262-9368 and pose your question to Jeff Fox, George Pappas, or Larry Marsh — all area ADF&G biologists. They should be able to give you an answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sockeye Charlie
    replied
    Question?

    I for one am glad that the fishery will be re-opened, and think that Fish and Game and the BOF did a commendable job in interpreting the data they had available.

    My question is, now that fishing will be re-opened, will the commercial fleet be fishing 24/7 with emergency openings all week long, or will they be kept to the two day openings on Mondays and Thursdays?

    I would like to try and hit some reds in the middle river later this week, but if the nets are going to be in the water 24/7 it may change my plans.

    Leave a comment:

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