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  • Shrimp Pop-ups

    Has anyone heard if pop-ups or GTR's are legal to use on shrimp pots in PWS. The regs say that a bouy must be attatched to the line but does not say that the bouy needs to be on the surface. I'll call the troopers when I get a chance, I just wanted to see if anyone else has addressed this. Thanks

  • #2
    pop-ups

    I can't imagine they'd be illegal. The buoy with the information is still attached to the pots/line. And how would they know about the pop-up if the buoy's underwater and can't be seen? How accurate are these pop-ups? I've heard about them but don't know much about them.

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    • #3
      I've never used the pop-ups but I hear that they are pretty accurate as long as you know the water temp because it affects the galvanic corrosion rate. They look like a big barrel swivel. They might not be worth the trouble for 24 hour soaks but I want them for 7 day soaks. I called the troopers office in Valdez and am waiting on a call back because they haven't heard of them.

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      • #4
        The answer is a clear no.

        A GTR device is legal when incorporated with the biodegradable escape mechanism as described in 5AAC 39.145 (2), but not when incorporated with the buoy system to hold the buoy underwater.


        The reasoning goes like this, one of the main purposes for the buoy requirements is for enforcement personnel to be able to locate gear, and then, with the buoy marking requirements, be able to identify the operator. If buoys don't have to float on the surface, then buoys won't be visible, and that would defeat the purpose of all the marking requirements. If GTR’s are legal to hold buoys underwater, then all submerged buoys, with or without releases, would also be legal. People could set pots a day (or a week, or a month) early (closed season) with GTR’s and the Wildlife Troopers could do little about it.

        While the regulations do not define “buoy”, the dictionary definition does: "A floating object moored in water to mark a channel or to warn of danger." Webster’s II New Riverside Dictionary, 1982 Edition. That definition is inconsistent with a submerged device. The courts will often utilize the dictionary definition when a term is not defined in regulation.

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        • #5
          Akkona, you make a valid point. I'm trying to get a definitive answer on this. If the troopers stance is that it is illegal I will try to get the regs changed. The troopers are aware of the increased theft of shrimp gear and it would be simple but time consuming to stakeout some pots with good photo gear from shore. I've even been considering doing this myself when I retire in a few years. I would love to be the first to show the thieves the pictures of themselves pulling the pots.

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          • #6
            maybe...

            Originally posted by Bearbait 1
            Akkona, you make a valid point. I'm trying to get a definitive answer on this. If the troopers stance is that it is illegal I will try to get the regs changed. The troopers are aware of the increased theft of shrimp gear and it would be simple but time consuming to stakeout some pots with good photo gear from shore. I've even been considering doing this myself when I retire in a few years. I would love to be the first to show the thieves the pictures of themselves pulling the pots.
            instead of good photo gear....one should stake their gear out with a .50BMG just up in the treeline out of view. A .50 cal hole just below waterline could be an interesting situation for the theives (also hard to explain to the troopers back at the dock!).
            AKmud
            sigpic


            The porcupine is a peaceful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bearbait 1
              Akkona, you make a valid point. I'm trying to get a definitive answer on this. If the troopers stance is that it is illegal I will try to get the regs changed. The troopers are aware of the increased theft of shrimp gear and it would be simple but time consuming to stakeout some pots with good photo gear from shore. I've even been considering doing this myself when I retire in a few years. I would love to be the first to show the thieves the pictures of themselves pulling the pots.

              It's doubtful that enforcement would support a regulation change that would allow the use of a GTR device on a bouy for the reasons I stated in my previous response. Enforcement did get some help at the last Board of Fish meeting when they passed a regulation that made it illegal to tamper, disturb, or pull another person's shrimp pot gear in PWS. This regulation was in effect in SE and helped to curb some of the theft down there.

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              • #8
                I realize enforcement may not like it. I find it hard to believe that the new regulation will have any affect on the thieves. It will allow them to be cited if they are caught but how are they going to be caught? It is already illegal to steal someone elses property, they didn't need a new regulation for that. I have had pots cleaned out and I have had them stolen. Until the troopers get enough preassure to set up surveliance the problem isn't going to go away. We need some names in the paper of people cited so the thieves know people are watching.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by akkona
                  While the regulations do not define “buoy”, the dictionary definition does: "A floating object moored in water to mark a channel or to warn of danger." Webster’s II New Riverside Dictionary, 1982 Edition. That definition is inconsistent with a submerged device. The courts will often utilize the dictionary definition when a term is not defined in regulation.
                  Well a crab pot, shrimp pot, or longline 'buoy' is not marking a channel or warning of danger. So neither of the above definitions fits in this case anyhow.

                  Not doubting your logic, just suggesting that if the courts want to 'rule by Webster' they might find their arguement weak in this situation.

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                  • #10
                    Shrimp pot theft PWS

                    Hi folks, does anyone have any recommendations for curbing shrimp pot thefts at PWS? I just came back from a trip on Saturday and had a broken GPS that resulted in being lost at sea for three hours and to top it off had my pots STOLEN during that time. This really ticks me off. I am thinking that a green buoy might be the answer marked by my GPS so that it would not be easy to find for the thieves and easy for me to find. I wonder if they make a buoy with a locator.

                    ANYONE with info? Please PM me as now I have to buy a new set-up.

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                    • #11
                      green buoy

                      I'm not sure how using a green buoy would make it harder for pot thieves to find your pots. Do you mean that green would be hard to see, or do you mean that they'd be looking for orange instead and so they might overlook the green buoy?

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                      • #12
                        There's pretty good history (both tech history and case history) of these things being tried in the commercial fisheries back in the late 70's and early 80's when the technology was first imported from Australia's lobster fishery. It was used by a few halibut longliners to get around the starting gun for the 24-hour "derby" fisheries. I know of one instance when a longliner was boarded for an inspection just before an opening. Imagine their embarassment and the glee of the boys with badges when buoys started popping up around them roughly an hour before the opening gun!
                        "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
                        Merle Haggard

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                        • #13
                          Green Buoys

                          I was thinking that it would be more difficult for casual boaters to know that there is a pot there to steal since the color green would be more concealed than a bright pink one. I don't know if it is legal or what but I am willing to try anything at this point.

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                          • #14
                            Why would someone want to soak pots for 7 days? The bait will never last that long & any shrimp in the pots will only be bait for the first octopus that goes by.
                            kaisersosei, if your gps wasn't working when you set your pots and then you were lost for hours how do you know where you set your pots in the first place? If you need some good fishing pots please PM me. I'm building some good ones.
                            Just a thought about popups, if you think your going to pull down one of those orange buoy balls i hope you got lots of weight in your pots or on your buoyline, try to push one under water at the dock next time you go fishing and you'll see what i'm talking about.
                            I was out yesterday shrimping and these pics are part of my catch for the day of 600 shrimp. I fish 5 pots, that i build myself and have for sale, no soak i make is longer than 2 hours, if they are there my pots are gonna catch them fast and these pictures are proof. If you need some good fishing pots PM me. The basket full of shrimp came out of 5 pots soaked for 2 hours.
                            Last edited by potbuilder; 03-10-2007, 22:10.
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                            Alaska Shrimp Pots

                            Rigid & Folding Shrimp & Crab Pots
                            Electra Dyne Pot Haulers
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                            alaskashrimppots.com
                            akshrimppots@mtaonline.net
                            907 775 1692

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                            • #15
                              Potbuilder

                              I emailed you to try out your pots and gave you my information. I know where I left them because I use the same spot several time in a row now. It is on the way back to Whittier and I was not lost by the time I went looking for them. I cruised the whole coast for about 1 hour. Live and learn I guess. As far as soak time, is 2 hours long enough? It seems that it would be too short of a period. Someone told me 6 to 8 hours so that is what I have been doing all this time. Maybe I will try your advice. Can't hurt I guess. That way I can monitor the pots with my AR15.

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