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  • #61
    Originally posted by BeaverCaster View Post
    Here’s some info you can brush up on, if you want to get your facts straight.

    https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/alask...fishing-alaska


    I challenge you to find anywhere it talks about “commercial charters”. You will however find “GUIDED SPORT” and “UNGUIDED SPORT” halibut fishing regulations. Or were you just sharing your opinion some more?
    .

    Peace brother...

    .
    Thanks for the link, I understand the reason for the language and calling it guided sport fishing since that's what it is, I've not twisted any words and I'm not playing word games. The fact is in the link you provided commercial charter guided sports fishing is different than unguided sports fishing and they are regulated as different fisheries. In the link you provided as part of being a guided sports fishing charter you need to have a Sports Fishing Operators License and/or a Sports Fishing Guide License from the state of Alaska, these licenses are regulated under AS 16.40.260 and AS 16.40.270. As previously mentioned section 40 specifically deals with the COMMERCIAL Use of Fish and Game. Guided sports fishing is a commercial use of fish and regulated as such. So if it makes you feel better to call it guided sports fishing that's fine, it is, but it is a commercial guided service regulated under the commercial use of fish and game in the state of Alaska.
    “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by 270ti View Post
      Well if this thread has made anything clear, it’s that patsfan is very low information on the difference between commercial fishing and guided sport fishing. And he seems to have an ex to grind with guided sport charters.
      270,

      Do you have a sports fishing guide license with the state of Alaska? If so it is done under the COMMERCIAL use of fish and game statute. Since I have "very low information" on the differences between commercial and guided sports fishing perhaps you can inform me why guided sports fishing is regulated under the COMMERCIAL Use of Fish and Game? You might have to repeat it a few times for it to make any sense to me because obviously when you sell something you are taking part in commerce, and when you are regulated by the COMMERCIAL Use of Fish and Game, according to you somehow you aren't in a commercial enterprise.

      I'm pretty slow so feel free to take your time.
      “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

      Comment


      • #63
        I'm pretty certain that AK and CA work the same way with commercial fishing and charter boats taking out paying passengers. Boats that are either commercial fishing or taking guided fisherman out are licensed through the commercial division of Fish and Game as a commercial vessel and this license is separate from what the people on board have to have. In CA you cannot mix commercial and sportfishing in the same day. If I'm commercially fishing everyone on my boat including myself has to have a commercial license. If I take people out who pay me to go sportfishing then everyone on the boat needs to have a sportfishing license. Bottom line is boats and people are licensed separately and the type of fishing depends on which license is being used and again you cannot sportfish and commercial fish at the same time. I hope this helps clarify the issue.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by kneedeep View Post
          I'm pretty certain that AK and CA work the same way with commercial fishing and charter boats taking out paying passengers. Boats that are either commercial fishing or taking guided fisherman out are licensed through the commercial division of Fish and Game as a commercial vessel and this license is separate from what the people on board have to have. In CA you cannot mix commercial and sportfishing in the same day. If I'm commercially fishing everyone on my boat including myself has to have a commercial license. If I take people out who pay me to go sportfishing then everyone on the boat needs to have a sportfishing license. Bottom line is boats and people are licensed separately and the type of fishing depends on which license is being used and again you cannot sportfish and commercial fish at the same time. I hope this helps clarify the issue.
          Good info, thanks. My questions aren’t around whether a boat operator is a commercial business, or what kind of license they get from who. The guy driving the boat doesn’t fish. The people fishing on a charter are sport anglers. But when they pay charter to take them fishing, their opportunities are severely reduced, versus the same sports person, holding the same sport license, fishing unguided aka, private boat. Seems like a screw job to me.

          I know OR and WA don’t have anything like this with their halibut regs , and I’m not aware of any other fishery in AK with similar. There are Different rules based on residency in some cases, yes. But based on guided versus non guided? You tell me. I’ve fished a lot of charters, all over AK, and never seen anything like it.

          Thanks again, and best wishes.

          Comment


          • #65
            [QUOTE=Patsfan54;1677499]Thanks for the link, I understand the reason for the language and calling it guided sport fishing since that's what it is, I've not twisted any words and I'm not playing word games. The fact is in the link you provided commercial charter guided sports fishing is different than unguided sports fishing and they are regulated as different fisheries. In the link you provided as part of being a guided sports fishing charter you need to have a Sports Fishing Operators License and/or a Sports Fishing Guide License from the state of Alaska, these licenses are regulated under AS 16.40.260 and AS 16.40.270. As previously mentioned section 40 specifically deals with the COMMERCIAL Use of Fish and Game. Guided sports fishing is a commercial use of fish and regulated as such. So if it makes you feel better to call it guided sports fishing that's fine, it is, but it is a commercial guided service regulated under the commercial use of fish and game in the state of Alaska.[/QUOTE

            Whatever rules apply to the boat, operator, their licensing, drug testing, and sections of code governing same, are not the point. The point is, the people doing the fishing are sport anglers, sport license, and the regulations they must adhere to are sport regulations. But because they pay to fish guided, they suffer severe reductions in their opportunities. And it keeps getting worse.

            If the resource is in decline I’m all for cutting back harvest. But I’d rather share the pain more equally.

            .

            Your mileage age may vary.

            .

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Patsfan54 View Post
              I'm pretty slow.

              you don’t have to convince me of that!
              Alaska Wide Open Charters
              www.alaskawideopen.com
              907-965-0130

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by BeaverCaster View Post
                Whatever rules apply to the boat, operator, their licensing, drug testing, and sections of code governing same, are not the point. The point is, the people doing the fishing are sport anglers, sport license, and the regulations they must adhere to are sport regulations. But because they pay to fish guided, they suffer severe reductions in their opportunities. And it keeps getting worse.

                If the resource is in decline I’m all for cutting back harvest. But I’d rather share the pain more equally.

                .

                Your mileage age may vary.

                .
                Beaver,

                The reason the limits are different for the sport anglers on commercial charters is different than on private boats is because commercial charters are bringing people out to catch fish in exchange for money, that simple and inescapable fact is the reason. These commercial charters frequent the same spots day in and day out for months on end with more people per trip than a private boat, they do so with extremely efficient results. As I said previously I won't begrudge a guy from making a living from fishing, but when a guy is making money off of a common resource they should be the one to bear the brunt of the regulations to preserve the common resource. In the case of commercial charters that is done by restricting the catch of their paying customers.
                “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by 270ti View Post
                  you don’t have to convince me of that!
                  No worries man, it's all good. We both know you can't prove that your commercial charter operation isn't a commercial charter operation. You have the license that proves it, the placards on the sides of your boat proves it, your tax return proves it. I get that you want to have your clientele catch more fish and so you group your commercial business in with sports fishing...it's just good business. But at the end of the day you are a commercial fishing operation.
                  “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I really like to see that the tone is decreasing, no one is slow here, we just have our opinions. The problem that I see is the complexity of understanding and interperting the management rules when the state and federal come together to manage halibut, overall it sucks for all of us!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      guys havent learned you cant change peoples mind on the internets yet? bottom line is the only way people will be happy is if they get what they want. It seems like there is never compromise any more with anything. ya it sucks for guided anglers that they can only get one big fish but your guide is probably alot more efficient at pulling out bigger fish every day then your average angler and the board or who ever probably thinks the same way and they dont want guides going out bonking 2 80 pound fish per person a day. if anything everyone should be pissed at the trawlers. band together and fight them instead of each other for now.
                      I will never be a "Prostaffer" its not that I am not good enough
                      but its because I refuse to pimp products for free.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by kwackkillncrew View Post
                        if anything everyone should be pissed at the trawlers. band together and fight them instead of each other for now.
                        This . Not just killing off the resource but destroying crucial habitat

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by kwackkillncrew View Post
                          if anything everyone should be pissed at the trawlers. band together and fight them instead of each other for now.
                          Can’t say I’m pissed at trawlers, or any other user group.

                          To me, the rules, the rule making process, and the people making the rules need to be overhauled.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by kwackkillncrew View Post
                            it sucks for guided anglers that they can only get one big fish.
                            Well sure, if you call a fish over 26 inches a big fish... :whistle:

                            Not to mention, max 4 fish per year, no fishing on Tuesday or Wednesday. What’s next?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by BeaverCaster View Post
                              Well sure, if you call a fish over 26 inches a big fish... :whistle:

                              Not to mention, max 4 fish per year, no fishing on Tuesday or Wednesday. What’s next?
                              Who needs a commercial charter to catch halibut? There are many places throughout Alaska where a guy, or gal, can catch halibut from the shore and I would bet there are many more that haven't even been discovered yet. You can buy a kayak, canoe, or even a small skiff for the price of the two commercial charter trips that gets a guy to his annual limit of commercial charter caught butt. Or you could always make friends with a guy, or gal, who owns a private boat...the limit on the commercial sector isn't an insurmountable barrier, it just keeps those who make money off of a common resource in check, so they don't deplete the resource for their own personal financial gain.
                              “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by kwackkillncrew View Post
                                guys havent learned you cant change peoples mind on the internets yet? bottom line is the only way people will be happy is if they get what they want. It seems like there is never compromise any more with anything. ya it sucks for guided anglers that they can only get one big fish but your guide is probably alot more efficient at pulling out bigger fish every day then your average angler and the board or who ever probably thinks the same way and they dont want guides going out bonking 2 80 pound fish per person a day. if anything everyone should be pissed at the trawlers. band together and fight them instead of each other for now.
                                Bycatch is definitely the biggest issue in the ocean regarding halibut catch that can be dealt with easily, and possibly kings to boot...but that's another thread! If the bycatch issue was solved, or even dealt with in a reasonable manner, all the halibut commercial fisherman could catch a lot more fish. Until the commercial charter fleet and the commercial hook and line fleet can get together and tell the bycatch fleet to leave their fish alone this nonsense will continue and the commercial fleets will come for the private anglers fish because they don't fight back...well most of them.

                                If the US and Alaska in specific did what Canada did in dealing with halibut (and king) bycatch we wouldn't be having this discussion.

                                Bycatch is the issue that needs to be dealt with, those with the money should be doing more to fight for where they get their money and not attacking those of us with no financial interest in this fight but who care about the resource.
                                “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

                                Comment

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