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So we're gonna kill Kings on the Kenai?

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  • aktally
    replied
    Originally posted by Patsfan54 View Post

    Maybe I have it all wrong, but the Inriver Escapement Goal is the total number of fish that ADFG wants to have in the river so that the amount of fish taken in river are accounted for prior to accounting for how many fish are left for reproduction or the Sustainable Escapement Goal. If that's the case and according to the chart you provided in four out of the eight years shown the SEG was over escaped, based upon the totals for 2019 and 2020 that aren't represented in the chart it seems like six out of ten years would have been over escaped based upon the SEG.
    The inriver goal is to provide for harvest upstream of the sonar. Without that goal, the only requirement would be to at least hit the lower end of the SEG/OEG, which wouldn't leave any harvestable surplus above the sonar.

    In years when the OEG was in place, that was the management goal, not the SEG. Management of the fisheries was targeting a wider range than what the SEG provided. Success or failure to meet the goal was based upon the OEG and not the SEG. It was a bit redundant and ultimately confusing for everyone involved to have the two goals (three including the inriver goal), which is one of the reasons why the OEG was repealed.

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  • Patsfan54
    replied
    Originally posted by aktally View Post
    Alaska Department of Fish and Game staff comments on commercial, personal use, sport, and subsistence regulatory proposals, Committee of the Whole

    The fish count page displays only the number of sockeye that passed the RM 19 sonar site. It does not subtract for harvest upstream of the sonar. The graph is the final spawning escapement estimates that subtract harvest from the sonar count. The inriver goal is an allocation goal is only based on sonar counts, it is not an escapement goal in terms of future production.
    Maybe I have it all wrong, but the Inriver Escapement Goal is the total number of fish that ADFG wants to have in the river so that the amount of fish taken in river are accounted for prior to accounting for how many fish are left for reproduction or the Sustainable Escapement Goal. If that's the case and according to the chart you provided in four out of the eight years shown the SEG was over escaped, based upon the totals for 2019 and 2020 that aren't represented in the chart it seems like six out of ten years would have been over escaped based upon the SEG.

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  • NorcalBob
    replied
    Thanks for the correction!
    I probably shouldn't say this, but 2015 was close enough for govt work!!!

    Originally posted by aktally View Post
    Just to clarify, the OEG was repealed in 2017. Also, the 2015 escapement estimate was 1,400,047. So technically the OEG was exceeded that year.

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  • aktally
    replied
    Just to clarify, the OEG was repealed in 2017. Also, the 2015 escapement estimate was 1,400,047. So technically the OEG was exceeded that year.

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  • NorcalBob
    replied
    Thanks for posting that graph AKTALLY. Very informative. So, in reality, the OEG has not been exceeded since 2006!
    Originally posted by aktally View Post
    Click image for larger version  Name:	sockeye escapement.jpg Views:	0 Size:	51.6 KB ID:	2773255

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  • aktally
    replied

    Alaska Department of Fish and Game staff comments on commercial, personal use, sport, and subsistence regulatory proposals, Committee of the Whole

    The fish count page displays only the number of sockeye that passed the RM 19 sonar site. It does not subtract for harvest upstream of the sonar. The graph is the final spawning escapement estimates that subtract harvest from the sonar count. The inriver goal is an allocation goal is only based on sonar counts, it is not an escapement goal in terms of future production.

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  • Patsfan54
    replied
    Originally posted by aktally View Post
    Click image for larger version

Name:	sockeye escapement.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	51.6 KB
ID:	2773255
    Tally,
    Where did you find that graph? It doesn't seem to jive with the ADFG fish count found here https://adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishCount...&SpeciesID=420

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  • aktally
    replied
    Click image for larger version

Name:	sockeye escapement.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	51.6 KB
ID:	2773255

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  • Patsfan54
    replied
    Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Runs are likely to continue to decline, but not because of "over-escapement", which is nothing more than a human economic construct.
    According to ADFG the Kenai has met the Sustainable Escapement Goal every year since 2011, it over escaped the SEG every year except 2018. The Kenai has over escaped the Inriver Escapement Goal year since 2011 except for 2013 (which would have over escaped if they didn't stop counting on Aug 7th), 2016 (which would have over escaped if they didn't stop counting on Aug 19th), 2017 (which might have over escaped if they didn't stop counting on Aug 24th when 16,610 fish were counted), and 2018 (which didn't meet the Inriver Escapement Goal). There have been four years since 2011 the Inriver Escapement Goal was not over escaped, but in reality two of those years most likely were over escaped one year might have over escaped and 2018 was the one year that wasn't over escaped by any reasonable measure.

    There is a point where too many fish in the river will result in less returning fish in future years, I don't know what that number is. Out in Bristol Bay they've over escaped for years and they keep bringing back more and more fish.

    What all of that means while we dump billions of hatchery pinks into PWS, I don't know but I'm glad it's not my job to know what it all means.

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  • iofthetaiga
    replied
    Originally posted by kwackkillncrew View Post
    small kings is better then no kings. If over escapement is an issue are we going to have a terrible red run on the russian in a couple years since they had over 80 thousand fish through the counter a couple years ago?
    Runs are likely to continue to decline, but not because of "over-escapement", which is nothing more than a human economic construct.

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  • kwackkillncrew
    replied
    small kings is better then no kings. If over escapement is an issue are we going to have a terrible red run on the russian in a couple years since they had over 80 thousand fish through the counter a couple years ago?

    Leave a comment:


  • catchfish
    replied
    The in river closure completely kills the beach nets and will increase the chance of over escaping the river with reds. They will increase bag limits soon I bet and switch to 24 hr dipping get ready for some chaos. I give it less than a week and boat will be capsized in the dip net fishery.
    I wish the management was not connected. I understand the com guys get some Kings but it’s not the large Kings normally. The large number I hear people talking about includes all kings including all the jacks that are under 10 lbs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian M
    replied
    Originally posted by river mist View Post
    Since both "K" rivers are completely shut down to king fishing in any shape or form starting 7/19, does this have any affect on beach set-netting.
    <br/><br/>Yep, setnetting is closed unless the king numbers come back up. <br/><br/>https://www.alaskapublic.org/2021/07...ry-shuts-down/

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  • river mist
    replied
    Since both "K" rivers are completely shut down to king fishing in any shape or form starting 7/19, does this have any affect on beach set-netting.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4merguide
    replied
    Originally posted by SmokeRoss View Post

    Too many.....
    One is too many imo.

    Leave a comment:

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