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Help me understand the regulations, in specific "Methods and Means"

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  • Help me understand the regulations, in specific "Methods and Means"

    On fresh water I basically use whatever people around me are using or whatever the dude at Cabelas or Bass Pros Shop told me to... I would like to be a better informed fisherman but honestly the folks putting the official booklet together could have use better wording.

    FRESH WATER SPORT FISHING:
    Fish may not be taken in fresh water by means of:

    • Fixed or weighted hooks and lures (except those of standard manufacture);

    ?

    • Multiple hooks with gap between point and shank larger than one-half inch;

    ? Is this basically a limit on the size of a treble hook?

    • Spear, unless permitted by area regulations; or arrow, unless permitted by area regulations. SPORT FISHING GEAR: Unless otherwise provided in regulation, sport fishing may be conducted only by use of:

    Don't care about this one.

    • A closely attended single line attached to not more than one plug; one spoon; one spinner or series of spinners; two artificial flies; or two hooks.

    Max 2 hooks, got it. Is a single treble hook kosher?

    • The line must be closely attended, unless unattended setlines for burbot are allowed per area regulations.

    USE OF ATTRACTOR (BEAD): An attractor, including a bead, when used with an artificial fly, artificial lure, or bare hook, must be:
    • Either fixed within two inches of the bare hook, fly, or lure,
    • Or be free sliding on the line or leader. • A bead fished on the line above a bare single hook is legal gear in waters where only flies may be used

    Why is an 'attractor bead' even an issue worth discussing.

  • #2
    People have been known to make their own snagging hooks.
    Yes, limiting the size of a treble hook for snagging reasons.
    Spear. Who cares.
    2 hooks is 2 hooks. Treble is 3. Should be easy enough to understand.
    Don't know what the deal is about a bead being within 2 inches.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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    • #3
      Here’s a question since we’re on the topic, are multiple beads allowed? Either fixed or free sliding?

      I was in willow last year and there was a guy fishing with a single free sliding bead and a bare hook, some old timers (nothing against old timers as I am close to that myself) started giving him lots of trash talk about that not being a legal set up. I intervened and said that free sliding was allowed in the reg book. I didn’t win any popularity awards that day...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by SmokeRoss View Post
        People have been known to make their own snagging hooks.
        Yes, limiting the size of a treble hook for snagging reasons.
        Spear. Who cares.
        2 hooks is 2 hooks. Treble is 3. Should be easy enough to understand.
        Don't know what the deal is about a bead being within 2 inches.
        The bead has to be within two inches of the hook to reduce the chances of snagging a fish in a place other than the mouth. If the bead is pinned at two inches, the fish will be hooked in or at the mouth. Beading is a biiiig deal on the Kenai.

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        • #5
          The 1/2" (shank to point) is the measurement of individual hooks. A treble hook would have 3 of those measurements. Mark is correct regarding the 2" rule. With a bead pinned above that there are far more hook-ups occurring in eyes and beneath gill plates. In recent years, I've gone to a nail knot 2" above the hook and the bead free sliding above that.
          Don't over think the regs. If you don't understand what it means, walk away and come back to it later and reread. Lots of confusing stuff, particularly when regs change at various points on the same stream.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SmokeRoss View Post
            2 hooks is 2 hooks. Treble is 3. Should be easy enough to understand.
            And yet they managed to make it hard to understand...

            • Multiple hooks with gap between point and shank larger than one-half inch;

            Would it have been that hard to say "treble hooks" instead of multiple hooks? Throw in there 'the use of larger treble hooks will be construed as an attempt to snag fish"? Heck I have seen plenty of trailing hook setups with bigger than 1/2" gap, but nobody seems to mind those.

            And no, it is not clear that a treble hook is not referring to more than one. Nobody has ever asked for one by saying 'hey, pass me three treble hooks'. I get what they meant, but they did not make it as clear as it could have been.

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            • #7
              I disagree that "• Multiple hooks with gap between point and shank larger than one-half inch" refers to treble hooks. It is referring to something like a sabiki rig where multiple single hooks are tied on the same line. Those can be legal in some fisheries (like for herring), but hook size is apparently regulated. If a regulation specifies "single hook only", then trebles are prohibited.

              Or...actually, let me say that's how I'm reading it on this screen without the context of the regulations booklet. Can you tell me which page you're pulling these quotes from? Sometimes that helps with the interpretation.

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              • #8
                Or maybe I'm wrong. Now that I re-read that, perhaps it is simply a regulation on the size of treble hooks. Again, a page citation would help if you have it.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brian M View Post
                  Or maybe I'm wrong. Now that I re-read that, perhaps it is simply a regulation on the size of treble hooks. Again, a page citation would help if you have it.
                  This guy here:

                  http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/ap...s_complete.pdf

                  Page 6: Methods and means

                  FRESH WATER SPORT FISHING:
                  Fish may not be taken in fresh water by means of:
                  • Fixed or weighted hooks and lures (except those of standard manufacture);
                  • Multiple hooks with gap between point and shank larger than one-half inch;
                  • Spear, unless permitted by area regulations; or arrow, unless permitted by area regulations.
                  SPORT FISHING GEAR:
                  Unless otherwise provided in regulation, sport fishing may be conducted only by use of:
                  • A closely attended single line attached to not more than one plug; one spoon; one spinner or series of spinners; two artificial flies; or two hooks.
                  • The line must be closely attended, unless unattended setlines for burbot are allowed per area regulations.
                  USE OF ATTRACTOR (BEAD):
                  An attractor, including a bead, when used with an artificial fly, artificial lure, or bare hook, must be:
                  • Either fixed within two inches of the bare hook, fly, or lure,
                  • Or be free sliding on the line or leader.
                  • A bead fished on the line above a bare single hook is legal gear in waters where only flies may be used.

                  End quote.

                  Heck the whole attractor bead has nothing on it about it being some sort of anti-snag device.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dbcooper View Post

                    This guy here:

                    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/ap...s_complete.pdf

                    Page 6: Methods and means

                    FRESH WATER SPORT FISHING:
                    Fish may not be taken in fresh water by means of:
                    • Fixed or weighted hooks and lures (except those of standard manufacture);
                    • Multiple hooks with gap between point and shank larger than one-half inch;
                    • Spear, unless permitted by area regulations; or arrow, unless permitted by area regulations.
                    SPORT FISHING GEAR:
                    Unless otherwise provided in regulation, sport fishing may be conducted only by use of:
                    • A closely attended single line attached to not more than one plug; one spoon; one spinner or series of spinners; two artificial flies; or two hooks.
                    • The line must be closely attended, unless unattended setlines for burbot are allowed per area regulations.
                    USE OF ATTRACTOR (BEAD):
                    An attractor, including a bead, when used with an artificial fly, artificial lure, or bare hook, must be:
                    • Either fixed within two inches of the bare hook, fly, or lure,
                    • Or be free sliding on the line or leader.
                    • A bead fished on the line above a bare single hook is legal gear in waters where only flies may be used.

                    End quote.

                    Heck the whole attractor bead has nothing on it about it being some sort of anti-snag device.
                    Regulations are never given with an explanation. We have to figure out why it is written the way it is, if that's what we want to know. From past discussions with people that were there when the 2" bead regulation was adopted, we know it's an attempt to mitigate hooking of fish in other places than the mouth.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You also need to understand that the regulation book we get is simply an abbreviated version of the actual law.<br/>The actual law is written in legal language that is much harder to understand.<br/>When in doubt you can always call ADF&G or the wildlife troopers.<br/><br/>Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk<br/><br/>
                      "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

                      "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
                        You also need to understand that the regulation book we get is simply an abbreviated version of the actual law.<br/>The actual law is written in legal language that is much harder to understand.<br/>When in doubt you can always call ADF&G or the wildlife troopers.<br/><br/>Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk<br/><br/>
                        I get that, but look at the very first two bullets:

                        • Fixed or weighted hooks and lures (except those of standard manufacture);
                        • Multiple hooks with gap between point and shank larger than one-half inch;

                        Would it have killed them to shed a tiny amount of light? First as to the intent of the first, and the second simply stating something "such as treble hooks" so we don't need a ouija board to try to comply with the law?

                        I have seen plenty of two hooks setup were the points were larger than 1/2 an inch. But they were 2 separate hooks, so you needed the ouija board to understand that this complied both with bullet two and four. Their failure to call a treble hook just that, a treble hook makes it a mess to understand.

                        Heck for all I know the interpretations we are discussing here are all wrong. I looked on the entire guide and the word treble is used once, page 78:

                        "Only one hook (single or treble) per line may be used; artificial lures or flies and bait are legal"

                        The word treble hook specifically and unequivocably refers to a single hook.

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                        • #13
                          Some "multiple" hooks are doubles and NOT trebles. The reg would be simplified and crystal clear by just adding the word POINT... distinguishing a multiple point hook (double or treble ) from a single point hook.
                          "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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                          The KeenEye MD

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