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The Disappearing Kenai King Salmon.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    King fishing should have been completely shut down a bunch of years ago. Like they did with the razor clams. Close it for years. No catch and release. No targeting kings. No bait until August.
    Absolutely correct.
    “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

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    • #17
      Its a seriously bad mess coming. Commercial fisheries catch kings as bycatch, but if commercial fishing is drastically curtailed in order to increase king numbers, red salmon numbers will easily go over escapement goals.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by yamwrench View Post
        The commies revealed their true colors with total disregard for the future of Kenai kings in filing the suit. I support king restrictions including limiting the number of guides as there are way too many guides targeting kings on the river. That being said the ESSN king harvest alone was well above the creel harvest on large kings (189 more) and all size kings (533 more) as of August 4. The greed and entitlement exhibited by the commies suing to fish regardless is troubling. I am glad the judge denied their motion in the interests of all future users. I still question the rationale behind state or federal taxpayers contributing tax dollars to a welfare fund when the commies have a bad year.
        "The Commies" don't all agree on everything. CIFF is a relatively small group, and a lot of "commies" don't agree with them...

        I'd also point out that while the escapement is currently 11,273, that's only large fish. If one assumes that around 60% of the run is big fish (probably lower I think, but whatever), then they've counted over 15,000 fish in the late run alone. More if the proportion of large fish is smaller. If you combine ER/LR in figures of total fish (all sizes), we'll likely have put around 25,000 Kings on the gravel this year. Not saying that's great, but it's important to remember that 9,000 figure stated earlier is only large fish.

        Also, as of the August 1th update, total projected ESSN large Kenai King harvest was 691. Estimated Kenai inriver sport harvest of large Kings was 931.
        https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary

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        • #19
          Originally posted by smithtb View Post
          "The Commies" don't all agree on everything. CIFF is a relatively small group, and a lot of "commies" don't agree with them...

          I'd also point out that while the escapement is currently 11,273, that's only large fish. If one assumes that around 60% of the run is big fish (probably lower I think, but whatever), then they've counted over 15,000 fish in the late run alone. More if the proportion of large fish is smaller. If you combine ER/LR in figures of total fish (all sizes), we'll likely have put around 25,000 Kings on the gravel this year. Not saying that's great, but it's important to remember that 9,000 figure stated earlier is only large fish.

          Also, as of the August 1th update, total projected ESSN large Kenai King harvest was 691. Estimated Kenai inriver sport harvest of large Kings was 931.
          https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary
          You can bet that both those harvest numbers are under reported. And let's not overlook the fact that C&R kills Kings, no matter what the studies on C&R claim. You let some tourist drag a foul hooked King around by it's tail for an hour so he can tell his buddie back home about the long battle, and that fish won't survive.
          Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by smithtb View Post
            "The Commies" don't all agree on everything. CIFF is a relatively small group, and a lot of "commies" don't agree with them...

            I'd also point out that while the escapement is currently 11,273, that's only large fish. If one assumes that around 60% of the run is big fish (probably lower I think, but whatever), then they've counted over 15,000 fish in the late run alone. More if the proportion of large fish is smaller. If you combine ER/LR in figures of total fish (all sizes), we'll likely have put around 25,000 Kings on the gravel this year. Not saying that's great, but it's important to remember that 9,000 figure stated earlier is only large fish.

            Also, as of the August 1th update, total projected ESSN large Kenai King harvest was 691. Estimated Kenai inriver sport harvest of large Kings was 931.
            https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary
            As of 8/11/19 according to ADFG run summary the ESSN total Kenai king harvest was 2208 with 972 large kings while the creel harvest was 1652 total kings. This does not include kings caught by the drifters and gillnetters in Cook Inlet. The commie harvest is significantly higher than the creel harvest. As previously stated I also think there are way too many guides targeting Kenai kings.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by yamwrench View Post
              As of 8/11/19 according to ADFG run summary the ESSN total Kenai king harvest was 2208 with 972 large kings while the creel harvest was 1652 total kings. This does not include kings caught by the drifters and gillnetters in Cook Inlet. The commie harvest is significantly higher than the creel harvest. As previously stated I also think there are way too many guides targeting Kenai kings.
              Let me fix that last line for you. “There are way too many sportfisherman targeting Kenai kings”. Have you ever been on the river before 6am or after 6pm or on Sundays or Mondays? I have. The river never rests.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by yamwrench View Post
                As of 8/11/19 according to ADFG run summary the ESSN total Kenai king harvest was 2208 with 972 large kings while the creel harvest was 1652 total kings. This does not include kings caught by the drifters and gillnetters in Cook Inlet. The commie harvest is significantly higher than the creel harvest. As previously stated I also think there are way too many guides targeting Kenai kings.
                The ESSN harvest numbers you are referencing from the summary (2208 Kings of all sizes, 972 Large Kings) are clearly labeled "total chinook harvest", and "all stocks". The summary clearly shows the min, mean, and maximum estimated proportions of Kenai fish in that ESSN harvest as indicated by 2010-2018 genetic samples. Based on the mean (71%), projected ESSN harvest of Large Kenai Kings was clearly stated in that summary: 691.

                https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by smithtb View Post
                  The ESSN harvest numbers you are referencing from the summary (2208 Kings of all sizes, 972 Large Kings) are clearly labeled "total chinook harvest", and "all stocks". The summary clearly shows the min, mean, and maximum estimated proportions of Kenai fish in that ESSN harvest as indicated by 2010-2018 genetic samples. Based on the mean (71%), projected ESSN harvest of Large Kenai Kings was clearly stated in that summary: 691.

                  https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary
                  What no one has said is the fact which is guides or commies or regular people are not killing off the kings around the Kenai. Yeah I can agree killing a lot on bad years is not a help but those numbers for the Kenai seem small to me. All that river all the side streams not much. That is what is so ironic about all of this. The extreme drought the United States drought monitor put the whole Kenai anchorage and parts of the mat Su into with Kodiak not far behind is probably worse on the run than any fishing done this summer. It makes sense to me with so many streams only at half or less than bank full that the outcome has to be less space for spawning and less area for baby salmon born last year to live eat and survive so they can swim to the ocean. I was hunting around deep creek and anchor for silvers recently and i tell you it was an eye opener it cannot be good. I also read in the Sunday paper about Deshka water temp in the 80 degree range this summer. To me it seems like the numbers you are mentioning would be tiny compared to the result of hardly any water to live in along with 80 some degree water. If you put most fish that live here around Cook Inlet into 80 degree water how long would they last? Alot of the coffee I drink in the morning is probably 80 some degrees that just seems nuts to me for salmon.

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                  • #24
                    So why is the adfg only counting <32” kings for escapement, but counting every single chinook for commercial harvest? Seems a bit one sided to me......

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MooseSlayer96 View Post
                      So why is the adfg only counting <32” kings for escapement, but counting every single chinook for commercial harvest? Seems a bit one sided to me......

                      ADFG is not counting every single King for commercial harvest. They apply size and genetic harvest sampling data to the total harvest, as they did in the linked inseason summary where it is clearly broke down. They also count all fish harvested in the Creel, and still try to apportion the run using netting data. Unfortunate that the unfair comparison persists, but I tend to blame the folks like KRSA and Craig Medred who purposefully misinform and manipulate the numbers than I do those who do so by accident Both of the folks/groups I mentioned have done so on multiple occasions, despite being informed of their errors. Their favorite is to compare every King commercially harvested in Cook Inlet to Kenai Large King harvest. It's a bummer.

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                      • #26
                        Too late for just more restriction...shut it down - for as long as it takes. Complete mismanagement. Yes, there will be second and third order effects regarding economics, tourism, etc, but I'll take it with hopes of a future King fishery.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by AK2AZ View Post
                          Follow the money. People come here for a guided King trip and spend money. Who cares if there are 400+ guide boats in operation as long as Soldotna and Kenai get their $$. Screw the fish apparently.

                          I actually fished Kings for a few hours this year with no intention of keeping but probably shouldn't even do that.
                          That has nothing to do with it. they reason they opened it with retention is so they would not have to cut the set netter more. if they closed Kenai King fishing they would have to shut down the set netters too. Its all about comfish being able to fish. Between what was caught and retained by sport fish and all the kings caught in the set nets would have pushed the number of kings over the BEG. If they close or restrict the Kenai then there are restrictions for the set netters. Comfish and fins and feathers puts Kenai Kings at the bottom of their concerns. Want proof??? they opened the river this past summer WITH retention and did not make escapement. NICE!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kgpcr View Post
                            That has nothing to do with it. they reason they opened it with retention is so they would not have to cut the set netter more. if they closed Kenai King fishing they would have to shut down the set netters too. Its all about comfish being able to fish. Between what was caught and retained by sport fish and all the kings caught in the set nets would have pushed the number of kings over the BEG. If they close or restrict the Kenai then there are restrictions for the set netters. Comfish and fins and feathers puts Kenai Kings at the bottom of their concerns. Want proof??? they opened the river this past summer WITH retention and did not make escapement. NICE!!
                            I am sure you are correct kgpcr. It only makes sense that Mr. Penney, who donated $375,000 to our governors campaign so he could get his preferences of bof members and commisioner apointed, would make a case to the commisioner to not close the kenai to chinook retention as it would close the setnet fishery.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by kgpcr View Post
                              That has nothing to do with it. they reason they opened it with retention is so they would not have to cut the set netter more. if they closed Kenai King fishing they would have to shut down the set netters too. Its all about comfish being able to fish. Between what was caught and retained by sport fish and all the kings caught in the set nets would have pushed the number of kings over the BEG. If they close or restrict the Kenai then there are restrictions for the set netters. Comfish and fins and feathers puts Kenai Kings at the bottom of their concerns. Want proof??? they opened the river this past summer WITH retention and did not make escapement. NICE!!
                              Interesting I am going to call fish and game today to find out if what you say is citrect

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by kidfromgarcia View Post
                                Interesting I am going to call fish and game today to find out if what you say is citrect
                                Its all part of their management plan. Please do as there are tit for tat restrictions on the Kenai. If the King fishing is curtailed or shut down on the river it has a direct impact on the ESSN guys.

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