Frame material

[AK Troutbum]

Does anyone know where a person can purchase (locally) aluminum bar stock for raft frames? I know Alaska Raft and Kayak sells it, but I'm looking for other options.

[AGL4now]

Don't know the Company name. But go south on arctic blvd. and turn right (west) on w. Potter dr. first place on left. W. Potter is near where the RR tracks cross Arctic Blvd. They have a bone yard of cut-off shorts and slightly bent stuff, or virgin materials.

[Michael Strahan]

Alaska Steel

The place you are thinking of is Alaska Steel. They're on Dowling. Note that there are different diameters and wall thicknesses of aluminum pipe. If you are using either the NRS or the Hollandaer fittings, make sure you get the right stuff. If you're building sleeved breakdown frames, you also need different stock to make the ferrules out of. The pipe generally comes in 20' sticks, but you might be able to purchase shorts.

-Mike

[AK Troutbum]

Hay Mike, glad you chimmed in. I'm actually looking at extending my 9' frame to 12'. So, I'm just needing the 4 bars that run the length of the pontoons in 12'. I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible and I don't need the 12'ers to break down, my 9'ers already do and those are what I'll continue to use for fly-outs. Do you know if Alaska Steel sells that type of tubing? It's the standard NRS frame tubing, same stuff that ARK uses.

[MacGyver]

Greer tank also has Alum. 243-2455.

[Alaskacanoe]

Aluminum tube

One thing to remember is that you may want to get Anodized Aluminum tubing.
the plain aluminum schedule 40 will leave black marks on what ever it rubs against. so if you are extending out from existing frames, and it touches your raft, it will cause it to turn black at that area, even if the motion is minimal. You will pay more for Anodized, but its worth it..
All of your quality name brand Frames are manufactured use Anodized tubing.

Max

[Jim Strutz]

A 20' stick of anodized schedule 40, 1.25" (the stuff NRS uses) cost a little over $80 last year at AK Steel. The non-anodized was only a few bucks cheaper, and as Max said, the anodized is well worth the small premium. Aluminum is cheaper this year, so you should be able to beat that price.

You'll need four full sticks to make four 12' side rails, but if you make 3' sleeved extensions instead you could save some bucks, and still just take 9' of it for fly in trips. The plastic end pieces just pop out, so adding on an extra section should be easy enough. Another way to do this is just make a 3' cargo extension that clamps on with a few NRS fittings.

Either way, you may need to add more cross pipes to your frame, depending on what your configuration is now.

[AK Troutbum]

A 20' stick of anodized schedule 40, 1.25" (the stuff NRS uses) cost a little over $80 last year at AK Steel. The non-anodized was only a few bucks cheaper, and as Max said, the anodized is well worth the small premium. Aluminum is cheaper this year, so you should be able to beat that price.

You'll need four full sticks to make four 12' side rails, but if you make 3' sleeved extensions instead you could save some bucks, and still just take 9' of it for fly in trips. The plastic end pieces just pop out, so adding on an extra section should be easy enough. Another way to do this is just make a 3' cargo extension that clamps on with a few NRS fittings.

Either way, you may need to add more cross pipes to your frame, depending on what your configuration is now.

I currently have a 3' cargo mod. and used the NRS net material for it. My plan, after a lot of consideration, is just to elimate the cargo mod. (when using the 12' frame) and use the NRS cargo net material in combination with my current NRS net material to bring down to the floor level. I also currently have 3 NRS yokes, one on each end of the frame and one in the middle that I use as a footbar. Although I do want to keep it as inexpensive as possible, I think for the 12' frame I would rather have a second set of one piece 12' bars than scab on another 3' to my 9'ers.

[Michael Strahan]

Frame advice

I currently have a 3' cargo mod. and used the NRS net material for it. My plan, after a lot of consideration, is just to elimate the cargo mod. (when using the 12' frame) and use the NRS cargo net material in combination with my current NRS net material to bring down to the floor level. I also currently have 3 NRS yokes, one on each end of the frame and one in the middle that I use as a footbar. Although I do want to keep it as inexpensive as possible, I think for the 12' frame I would rather have a second set of one piece 12' bars than scab on another 3' to my 9'ers.

Trout,

I like the full-length drop floor idea; it gives you more room. But there are some considerations:

1. Your tubes curve up at the bow and stern. A 12' stick of pipe will take you past the curvature and it will not lay flat on top of your tubes. This creates a wear point at each end of the pipe. With the cargo module separate, you don't tighten it to your frame until it is laying on the tubes, so it can accommodate to the bow and stern rise.

2. The 12-footer gives you a lighter frame, because you use less fittings. If you're not using breakdown 12-footers, your weight drops even more.

3. I do not recommend 12-foot bars for flyout trips as a general rule. They don't fit in the smaller aircraft very well at all, and they're a real pain to ship as cargo if you're chartering out of a village somewhere. It's just a matter of time until they get bent.

4. I don't prefer the NRS yokes because they don't break down, and don't load well in small aircraft. They are also heavy. IMHO you are better off with straight crossbars on top, short crossbars on the bottom, and vertical risers to secure the top and bottom together. This is a standard option offered by Alaska Raft and Kayak. The downside of their setup is that you use more fittings, and some of those fittings will rub against your tubes because of the way the frame is designed. So their frame may be heavier than the NRS yoke. But even then you still have the bulk issue to deal with.

5. If you're determined to build it yourself, I second the advice to go with anodized pipe. Two of my frames are not anodized but I would have gladly paid extra for that. The regular stuff turns your hands (and everything else) black after a while.

Hope it helps!

-Mike

[AK Troutbum]

Trout,

I like the full-length drop floor idea; it gives you more room. But there are some considerations:

1. Your tubes curve up at the bow and stern. A 12' stick of pipe will take you past the curvature and it will not lay flat on top of your tubes. This creates a wear point at each end of the pipe. With the cargo module separate, you don't tighten it to your frame until it is laying on the tubes, so it can accommodate to the bow and stern rise.

2. The 12-footer gives you a lighter frame, because you use less fittings. If you're not using breakdown 12-footers, your weight drops even more.

3. I do not recommend 12-foot bars for flyout trips as a general rule. They don't fit in the smaller aircraft very well at all, and they're a real pain to ship as cargo if you're chartering out of a village somewhere. It's just a matter of time until they get bent.

4. I don't prefer the NRS yokes because they don't break down, and don't load well in small aircraft. They are also heavy. IMHO you are better off with straight crossbars on top, short crossbars on the bottom, and vertical risers to secure the top and bottom together. This is a standard option offered by Alaska Raft and Kayak. The downside of their setup is that you use more fittings, and some of those fittings will rub against your tubes because of the way the frame is designed. So their frame may be heavier than the NRS yoke. But even then you still have the bulk issue to deal with.

5. If you're determined to build it yourself, I second the advice to go with anodized pipe. Two of my frames are not anodized but I would have gladly paid extra for that. The regular stuff turns your hands (and everything else) black after a while.

Hope it helps!

-Mike

I'm not worried about the weight of the frame or the awkwardness of being able to fly it out because I'll only use this frame for road accessible rivers that I can trailer it to (keep the 9' break down frame for the fly-outs). No problem with the frame digging into the pontoons because there is little to no curving up of the pontoons on the top side and 12' when centered on the 18' hulls works fine. I will definitely go with anodized though. Alaska Steel is closed on the weekends, but I'll give them a call on Monday and see if they have what I'm looking for. Also, if I do have to buy 4-20'ers and if there's anyone out there that is looking for some frame material, I'll have 4-8' sections to sell.

[Michael Strahan]

Leopard frame issues

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I'm not worried about the weight of the frame or the awkwardness of being able to fly it out because I'll only use this frame for road accessible rivers that I can trailer it to (keep the 9' break down frame for the fly-outs). No problem with the frame digging into the pontoons because there is little to no curving up of the pontoons on the top side and 12' when centered on the 18' hulls works fine. I will definitely go with anodized though. Alaska Steel is closed on the weekends, but I'll give them a call on Monday and see if they have what I'm looking for. Also, if I do have to buy 4-20'ers and if there's anyone out there that is looking for some frame material, I'll have 4-8' sections to sell.

Hi Trout,

Makes sense if you're trailering' that's what I do in the summer as well. But you might consider resale value; many folks fly out with their cats, and the breakdowns are all but essential for that.

We'll have to disagree on the curvature issue. Doesn't matter which cat you have, except perhaps the original Leopard, with the mitred tubes. They all have an upward curvature at the bow and stern, and it is fairly significant. I'll attach one of AIRE's wireframes of the Leopard, onto which I laid a 12' heavy line to represent your stick of frame pipe. You can see that you've got a gap of about 2" or so under that pipe for much of its length. If you lay this pipe on top of the tube, it will sag and follow the contour of the tube. But once you secure all your fittings, it will straighten out if your frame is properly braced, and will be square again. Then when you snug your tubes up to the frame, it will pinch at both ends and you'll have a rub spot at either end. It's not too bad, but it is a rub point.

As I mentioned before, you can mitigate the issue somewhat by going with a shorter frame and cargo modules at one or both ends. This is probably why AIRE makes shorter frames than 12', btw.

Take care,

-Mike

[AK Troutbum]

Hi Trout,

Makes sense if you're trailering' that's what I do in the summer as well. But you might consider resale value; many folks fly out with their cats, and the breakdowns are all but essential for that.

We'll have to disagree on the curvature issue. Doesn't matter which cat you have, except perhaps the original Leopard, with the mitred tubes. They all have an upward curvature at the bow and stern, and it is fairly significant. I'll attach one of AIRE's wireframes of the Leopard, onto which I laid a 12' heavy line to represent your stick of frame pipe. You can see that you've got a gap of about 2" or so under that pipe for much of its length. If you lay this pipe on top of the tube, it will sag and follow the contour of the tube. But once you secure all your fittings, it will straighten out if your frame is properly braced, and will be square again. Then when you snug your tubes up to the frame, it will pinch at both ends and you'll have a rub spot at either end. It's not too bad, but it is a rub point.

As I mentioned before, you can mitigate the issue somewhat by going with a shorter frame and cargo modules at one or both ends. This is probably why AIRE makes shorter frames than 12', btw.

Take care,

-Mike

I see your point Mike in your diagram. In this picture here, although you can not see the front of the boat, the frame is actually 146" this is including the cargo mod. and this 146" total frame is centered on the pontoons. If you look close (if you can) you can see that the rear end of the bar is not touching the pontoon as it is held off of the rubber by the seat pedestal lowpros.

[shapp]

what type of tubes

Depends on the brands. I read the post and didn't see what type of tubes they are (maybe I missed it) (edit after the oritional message: oops I wrote this post before I logged in and could see the photos) NRS tubes don't really have any up curve on top and can take a much longer frame per given total tube length than aire tubes.

NRS yolks are the same weight as a top cross bar plus vertical stabilizers plus a bottom cross bar (and may be lighter if the vertical risers are supported using lopros and are not welded).

My 2 cents.

[AK Troutbum]

Thanks guys. Alaska Steel has it for $3.00/ft. in 20' lengths and will make the first cut for free for each 20'er. Just a little FYI incase anyone else is interested in doing some modifications to their frame.

[AlaskaTrueAdventure]

cutting

Troutbum,
When I scanned these posts I did not see (and might have missed) how you intended to cut the 20 foot sections into exact, specific smaller frame pieces. I use a high quality hand held pipe cutter. The type that you manually turn around and around the pipe, constantly tightening the cutting deal until the seperation is completed. After each cut I then carefully clean up the ends with a fine file. It is time consuming, but it works for me. Of course Tracy at AK R&K has the absolute correct cutting device. What do others use to cut their frame pieces to precision lengths???

Thanks, Dennis
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