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  • #16
    I think some of it's the medium.

    Don't be too hard on folks. It's tough to see exactly how people intend certain comments by our interpretation of the words on the screen. There are a lot of good folks on these forums. Some of them have really good writing skills, and some of them don't, but we're all here for basically the same reasons. Without seeing body language and facial expressions, it's impossible to see how comments are meant.

    Good luck on the boat purchase. If you do buy the 1400, I know you'll be happy with it.

    If you want to try mine out, just send me a p.m.

    Good luck and I'll see you on the river,

    Scott

    Comment


    • #17
      Spring float

      Originally posted by Mad Dog-11 View Post
      Thanks, Scott I really appreciate the offer. I'm pretty confident this raft will meet 99% of my needs as well. Most of my trips will be road access, but I do have access to planes and pilots for a remote fly-in trip. I probably would not take it on much more than a 5 day trip with 2-3 adults total. This forum has been great, with only the occasional blunt or rude personality. Ironically, I saw some of the same "behavior" on your original thread
      If I don't have the boat by spring, then I will definately take you up on the practice run. If I have it, then you'll see me in my drift boat or the raft on the Kenai. Mad Dog
      MD,

      Are you aware of the spring forum float? There are a couple of polls at the top of the rafting forum where you can weigh in on your choice of dates and location. We should have a final decision on both of those pretty quickly. Right now it looks like the Matanuska. Anyway whether you have your boat by then or not, there will be plenty of boats to row and ride. I have three myself that I can bring along. Should be a great time, with your choice of overnight or day trip. If we get Jim Strutz to go (he looks like he's going) the guy is great with the food.

      Anyway it would be a great time to get to know some of the forum folks too. I agree with Scott; sometimes things come across on the Internet in a different way than the writer intended. So don't take it too personally; I don't believe it was intended that way at all.

      Take care,

      -Mike
      Michael Strahan
      Site Owner
      Alaska Hunt Consultant
      1 (907) 229-4501

      Comment


      • #18
        Ok, I'll give him the benifit of the doubt. My first impression was... shall we say... "not positive".
        I saw the spring float forum. I even cast a vote, inadvertantly to the wrong river, then I couldn't change it, lol. I've done a lot of white water rafting in my past. Now, I'm mostly interested in rivers I can fish. I don't beleive there is much in the way of fish in the Matanuska, but I may be wrong. It would be a great trip though. Thanks for the advice. Mad Dog
        To bead or not to bead, that is the question... :confused:

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mad Dog-11 View Post
          Ok, I'll give him the benifit of the doubt. My first impression was... shall we say... "not positive".
          I saw the spring float forum. I even cast a vote, inadvertantly to the wrong river, then I couldn't change it, lol. I've done a lot of white water rafting in my past. Now, I'm mostly interested in rivers I can fish. I don't beleive there is much in the way of fish in the Matanuska, but I may be wrong. It would be a great trip though. Thanks for the advice. Mad Dog
          Just to clarify and then I'll shut up (don't wanna hijack your thread). We're trying to choose a river that allows us to focus on floating, not fishing. Sounds silly I know, but most of us are fishing addicts and we wanted this to be more of a social occasion, with some learning from each other. So the Mat is a good choice- lots of huge gravel bars for camping and some good water to run. We had to get a permit to do this on the Kenai last year- amazing. Anyway it's before fishing really kicks in, so it should be a great icebreaker for what I hope will be a nice summer of fishing.

          Take care,

          -Mike
          Michael Strahan
          Site Owner
          Alaska Hunt Consultant
          1 (907) 229-4501

          Comment


          • #20
            Odd gulkana?

            I think BlueMoose proposed the possibility of loosely planning a later trip on the Gulkana for those who couldn't/ didn't want to do the Mat float. That might be a possibility still too. A few of us could get together for a fishing trip later in the summer.

            I'd be interested.

            I'm still hoping to do the Mat trip as well, but it looks like it's going to be my anniversary weekend so we'll have to see.

            Scott

            Comment


            • #21
              Hello Mad Dog and the rest of the rafting forum -

              Originally posted by Mad Dog-11 View Post
              Ok, I'll give him the benifit of the doubt. My first impression was... shall we say... "not positive".
              I saw the spring float forum. I even cast a vote, inadvertantly to the wrong river, then I couldn't change it, lol. I've done a lot of white water rafting in my past. Now, I'm mostly interested in rivers I can fish. I don't beleive there is much in the way of fish in the Matanuska, but I may be wrong. It would be a great trip though. Thanks for the advice. Mad Dog
              Hello Mad Dog and the rest of the rafting forum -

              Pleased about benefit of the doubt & apologetic that it led to some of the negatives or misunderstandings on this thread held by the two of us. In my first reply - This was neither my intention nor real direction of the post. My second response was not called for.

              In the first, I was just trying to get a few more details and perspective trips to help you with better info and insights. Please allow a healthier approach as rafting is a lifestyle, livelihood, and passion I’d rather highlight.

              What is interesting about the two boats when compared is that they really are very unalike on water... when carrying just a little load w/ one person to filling stuff then stuffing 3-5 folks over useful capability. The comparisons differ in not so much talking gross weight capacity; yet more in terms of useful load space, elbow room, center of gravity, all the meanwhile still providing agile handling.

              Like any AIRE or newer models of Outcast… the boats themselves are excellent and principally engineered for their intended purpose (many niche model boats in both fleets). The1300 & 1400 (Puma designs) are responsive performers within their capacities.

              The PAC frames on the other hand are not a big winner for numerous Alaska modes. The powder-coat welded fishing frame and modular fishing platforms are “shockingly” very heavy just by themselves in the boat, and unless you have ‘near’ over-pressure on every chamber the boat will even sag loading ‘er up on a trailer. That’s plain hard to do on an AIRE or Outcast made to the same standards! In effect you turn a stiff light weight manageable boat you could one hand haul on dry ground reminicent of an ungainly two person grunt.

              The finish will scratch/flake/peel and show some corrosion signs but that’s not a big deal in terms of function. There is some ‘built in’ oar station adjustment, nevertheless not a whole lot. The PAC frames will not beak down to very compact components for tight fly out situations. The lean-bars will see considerable damage from sweepers, strainers and any flips. Had 4 rental boats in these circumstances need replacement in past two seasons, but note… that all NRS custom frames with no trouble endured comparable occurrences carrying heavier loads.

              The real benefit of the PAC frame is that you get an all-in-one exclusive package having everything you may need (w/ the exception of purchasing an extra oar and the hardware) that is river ready at a competitive price. I recognize that many will leave it assembled for the road trips… so the tow & go is another way of making good use of the PAC frame and strap-in mod platforms.

              In the rental dept. the past few summers… ‘07 there was 1 AIRE puma and 2 SuperDuperPuma that I made NRS Frames for in slightly modified Bighorn 1 design. The criterion here was multiday fly-out for 2 and also a day or weekender road trip for up to 5. The only real complaints were that the “PUMA is way too small w/ comments along the limes of “it looked bigger on the trailer.” There were no real grievances given by customers on the SDP unless they went to 2 folks riding in front or back (so a load of at least 4-5) with little to no elbow or shoulder room. Guides demo/renting the boat opted usually to stay w/ a full size raft with wider beam/bigger tube diameter due to better stability, space, loads, drafts, comforts, and customizations. SDP generally handled the weight - just not the dimensions of the people very well in oar configuration. The boats were originally designed as niche technical water paddle craft… this is why it handles the weight, however when using the NRS frame and PAC style w/ fishing mods it creates that side by side body/leg/foot room cramping that’s a bit too close to the bow & stern - especially with typical Alaska apparel and fishing gear.

              In summer/fall ’08 was 1 PAC 1300 & 1 PAC 1400. After I laced the new floors in and assembled the frames… decided to run the 1300 as is (stock) w/ the exception of an additional oar and occasionally the anchor. It was a remarkably heavy little bugger for its size, never made a fly-out, staying assembled on a trailer, and exclusively worked easy mileage along the highway waters. The PAC 1400 was also pretty much used in the same category (light day tripping & trailer use) but also had a few options I incorporated into one of the SDP frames I had left over from ‘07… ie. a longhorn, bighorn 1, bighorn 2, and compact outfitter multiple configurations possible w/ thwarts for paddling, 1 lean bar and motor mount specifically to make a better try before you buy and fly-out application.

              These are the rental demos in near-new condition that I’d said I could help organize. I snowmobile guide in the winter so I not around much (except this inter so far arrrrrgh); however I managed this fleet to an unmatched meticulous system & standard the past two seasons. At season end of the fall ’08 my assistant and I put them in a very organized storage. I figured you might want to try before you buy prior to any rental season start-up and would certainly be a big help to facilitate getting the proper boat and frame/accessories so that there would be no confusion with parts and accessories. Whether it be over the phone or right in there with you &/or ARK in the off season, I’d gladly taken the time to help in any way and still would.

              I should have probably PM’d ya on here and said, could you give us a few more details on what you plan to do w/ the boat, your expectations, experience, etc. & should not have made my second response devoid of final reaction. I am pleased it was taken off the thread, and likely your first thoughts will not leave lasting impressions. Did not mean to push your buttons and I’m persuaded to feel that that was not the way any of us wanted to present on the raft forum.

              Sincerely,
              Brian

              Comment


              • #22
                II is possible

                We could do the optional on the Gulkana over-night as well bring your GPS :-)

                Would have to be directly after Ice Out and prior to the firts real run of Kings.

                Depending on the water level and what ice is either on or off the shore limited camping spots are available.

                Couple of years back we hit the river directly after Mem day weekend hoping to catch the early stone hatch and hit ice out i.e.. high dirty water not a fun trip. Some day if we can ever egt the client back I would love to have his child come along again on our dime to show him what it can be like.

                Any Who Sorry for rambling. After the ODD float we can do a loose band of brothers and sisters and accomplish an optional prior to King Season. I would suggest Sept becuase it is alsways fun to fish the 2nd run of reds but hunting I will go this year.

                :-( Sorry for jacking the thread.

                might suggest we start an optional ODD 2nd trip via PMs to those who wish to have a Two-for this year.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I would definitely like to float the Gulkana. I've never fished that river or run it. I know it can have some good fishing and understand it is not too technical. In fact that was the river I meant to vote for. I'd also like to go down the Moose River into the Deshka.
                  To bead or not to bead, that is the question... :confused:

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Thanks for all the info. I never saw the second post before it was removed, so no harm. I figured that I may have to get NRS frames in the future to take it to more remote waters. One thing at a time.
                    To bead or not to bead, that is the question... :confused:

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Yes, well, maybe..

                      It sounds like it can be done with just the middle portion of the aire frame, but the NRS frames are much lighter and breakdown much smaller.

                      I'm hoping to try the Alagnak this fall, so we'll see how it works. My plan at this point is to give the aire frame a shot on the trip anyway. I may get another frame in the future, if this one is too much trouble on the fly-out, but like you said, one thing at a time.

                      Here's a breakdown of the raft and frame weights directly from aire, if you're interested:

                      PAC 1400 raft: 115lbs
                      2 Bay Frame: 58lbs
                      Front Casting Platform: 42lbs
                      Stern Casting Platform: 48lbs

                      …A fishing Vacation to Bristol Bay floating on the Nushagak River and coolers full of frosty beer…weightless!

                      Sheena Coles
                      AIRE sales / customer service
                      Phone: 1-800-247-3432
                      Fax: 1-800-701-2473
                      sheena.coles@aire.com
                      info@aire.com
                      www.outcastboats.com
                      www.aire.com
                      www.aireindustrial.net


                      Anyone know off the top of their head what a similar 2 or 3 bay NRS frame weighs? I think the aire frame is 63 inches long, but I could be wrong on that.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hmmm...

                        O.k. I decided to check it out myself. Interestingly enough, the NRS compact outfitter frame (which appears to be the closest to the aire frame) weighs-in at 50lbs for the 60" model. I'm surprised. I thought for sure the NRS frames would be much lighter. I guess that's still 8lbs more beer or steaks you could bring along with the NRS frame.

                        Here's the link the the NRS page:

                        http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=1204

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Thanks for doing the research. I'd like to know how well it works out using the Aire frame on the fly out. The Alagnak in the fall should be spectacular.
                          I'm definitely going with the PAC 1400 now. I may have it by tomorrow. However, I might wait until after the boat show on the 31st, to price compare any deals.
                          To bead or not to bead, that is the question... :confused:

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            B.R. Nice Post

                            Brian thanks for taking the time to write your post. Bar none there are few with your overall knowledge and ability to write about subjects concerning rafting. I know you do not need my approval by any means but thought I would share my feelings concerning this forum.

                            I hope and trust you will continue to provide your indepth knowledge of fishing, rafting and outdoor knowledge for all to share.

                            Moose-O

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I would be up for the Gulkana. Would you go early to target trout? Or would it be better to wait for the Kings?
                              To bead or not to bead, that is the question... :confused:

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Mad Dog and Scott

                                Lets do this PM once we come up with dates and what is what we will ask Mike to repost 2nd ODD float option on the Gulkana if enough interest.

                                :-)

                                Comment

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