Question about Tier I Caribou - the drawing

[FamilyMan]

ADF&G shows their drawing procedure here:
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index...ermits.lottery

The Tier I rules specifically say that if you draw that permit, no one in your household may hunt caribou or moose anywhere in the state except in unit 13.

So what happens if two hunters in your family draw out like this:
Hunter1: drew the Tier I Unit 13 Caribou permit
Hunter2: drew some very hard to get (odds wise) caribou or moose permit outside of Unit 13

The way I read it, Hunter 1 drawing (not hunting) that permit disqualifies Hunter 2 from using their permit; so their permit goes to waste.

Is this true, or am I missing something?

[northriver21]

Originally Posted by FamilyMan

ADF&G shows their drawing procedure here:
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index...ermits.lottery


Is this true, or am I missing something?

You got it! It really makes it hard to apply and spend money for permits knowing if you draw a teir 1 permit you are disqualified.

[Vince]

na that hunter didn't have tags that went to waist steve....


they got taken away and give to me....

so you and the kid have deside...

road side easy, or long canoe ride with lots of gas?

BTW if you think the one i gave you last year was easy... wait until next year

[Rufus]

Apply for the point(s) at least; and keep your option to hunt elsewhere as I believe you are not penalized by getting the point(s) in tier 1 system for that year.

And according to the application, no one in the household can hunt anywhere in the state except 13 for Moose or Caribou if a house hold applicant is awarded a tier 1 caribou permit. It does not say anything about Bear, Blacktail, etc...

[Rich_in_AK]

Not only that, if they close the hunt by emergency order on the second day you are really out of luck for the remainder of the season.

[anchskier]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Apply for the point(s) at least; and keep your option to hunt elsewhere as I believe you are not penalized by getting the point(s) in tier 1 system for that year.

You are not able to just opt for the points this year. That was an option last year only because it came out so late and they figured many people already had commitments to other hunts. There is no option this year to just get the points. It's either all in or nothing.

[FamilyMan]

Originally Posted by Vince

so you and the kid have deside...

road side easy, or long canoe ride with lots of gas?

BTW if you think the one i gave you last year was easy... wait until next year

No decision like that necessary; my favorite is long canoe ride. If I apply for and get the Tier I caribou tag, that is the way I'll hunt it.

But I'm also looking at the Moose hunt outside unit 13 (also by long canoe ride); but it looks like from the current rules this would not the best move for me to make...

Lots of gas? No way. My 4stroke just sips gas; I go forever on a tank.

Easy? I darn near flipped my bike, I dinged the plowmount beyond recognition and almost beyond repair, and the creek-crossings scared the crap out'a me until the route became well worn (2 days into the season) and I saw that I didn't really need to do all those crossings... But everything about that hunt sure was fun - Thanks again for that.

OK, I'll bite. What is next year's?

[Brian M]

Originally Posted by FamilyMan

No decision like that necessary; my favorite is long canoe ride. If I apply for and get the Tier I caribou tag, that is the way I'll hunt it.

But I'm also looking at the Moose hunt outside unit 13 (also by long canoe ride); but it looks like from the current rules this would not the best move for me to make...

If I applied for the Tier I hunt, all of my moose applications would also be in Unit 13 (the any-bull tags available to residents-only). I didn't apply for Tier I this year specifically because I know that I won't be able to spend the time next fall for a quality moose hunt 20ish miles off the road.

[FamilyMan]

Originally Posted by Brian M

If I applied for the Tier I hunt, all of my moose applications would also be in Unit 13 (the any-bull tags available to residents-only). I didn't apply for Tier I this year specifically because I know that I won't be able to spend the time next fall for a quality moose hunt 20ish miles off the road.

Right. That does sound like the smart way to go. I'm just surprised that the current drawing rules allow you to draw a tag that you're not allowed to hunt.

I did spend good long time in the field, about 25 miles off the road, hunting moose in unit 13 this past year. (And actually ran across other members while out there.)

But I don't want to restrict myself to unit 13. Guess that makes up my mind to not apply for the Tier I, eh?

[Akres]

Originally Posted by Brian M

If I applied for the Tier I hunt, all of my moose applications would also be in Unit 13 (the any-bull tags available to residents-only). I didn't apply for Tier I this year specifically because I know that I won't be able to spend the time next fall for a quality moose hunt 20ish miles off the road.

Brian,
If I am reading your post correctly, it might well put a new interesting twist on the Tier I Permit for Caribou. As you know there are some "quality moose hunt(s) 20ish miles off the road" in Unit 13. And if you got one of the Any Bull Permits, in that area, it would make it an even more Quality Hunt. Anyone putting in for the Tier I Hunt, should very much consider putting all their eggs in one basket and apply for the Any bull Moose permits in Unit 13 as well. With those two permits in hand, it is pretty much a Slam Dunk for getting a Nice Caribou, Nice Moose and Nice Grizzly in one outing. Pretty hard to go wrong with a hunt like that.

[Brian M]

Yep, it would be awesome to have both permits in hand. My mother had one of the any-bull tags last year, but they didn't have a Tier I permit. Ended up seeing about 30 caribou, but couldn't do anything about it.

If we stay under the current system, I think that's how I'll apply in 2011.

[FamilyMan]

So, because I have moose plans that next year involve going outside of unit 13, I'm out of the Nelchina caribou permit consideration? There's been talk of "fair" here; tell me how that is fair?

Yeah, I know. Demand outstrips supply and you have to discriminate on some grounds; but how is that the right grounds?

[Brian M]

Originally Posted by FamilyMan

Yeah, I know. Demand outstrips supply and you have to discriminate on some grounds; but how is that the right grounds?

Because the Board of Game says so.


Soo....will we be seeing you at the next board of game meeting? Lunch is on me.

[anchskier]

Originally Posted by Brian M

Yep, it would be awesome to have both permits in hand. My mother had one of the any-bull tags last year, but they didn't have a Tier I permit. Ended up seeing about 30 caribou, but couldn't do anything about it.

If we stay under the current system, I think that's how I'll apply in 2011.

The only problem with that is that you will have zero points going into the 2011 tier I system (since you didn't apply this year) against others that have 2 points from 2009 and 2010.

[bushrat]

Originally Posted by Family Man

So, because I have moose plans that next year involve going outside of unit 13, I'm out of the Nelchina caribou permit consideration? There's been talk of "fair" here; tell me how that is fair?

Yeah, I know. Demand outstrips supply and you have to discriminate on some grounds; but how is that the right grounds?

Whenever we discriminate it will be unfair to some, that's just the way it is. Regarding the Unit 13 issues, the BOG has been continually put between a rock and a hard place, and it's a no-win situation for them whatever they end up doing.

Re how is that the right grounds?...the Board figured just what we are seeing here, that many hunters wouldn't apply for the Tier permits because they didn't want to only hunt in that unit, making more permits available for those who really just wanted to hunt in Unit 13 for both moose and caribou.

You can still apply for the permit and hope you don't get one, and get the pref points <grin>. The Board also figured most hunters who were gonna hunt outside Unit 13 wouldn't want to risk doing that.

[Akres]

Originally Posted by bushrat

Whenever we discriminate it will be unfair to some, that's just the way it is.

This is a perfect example of how many are quite content with having Discrimination imposed in an unequal manner. Under the old system, eveyone was discriminated against in an equitable manner. Under the new system, there are Exclusive Hunting Priveleges being extended to a Social Class of Citizens and then the remainder are discriminated against. Do you NOT see the WRONG in all that? I think the overwhelming majority of Americans disagree with this kind of Social Engineering of the Masses. But obviously there are a few that think it is HunkyDory. Sad day for individual liberties and equal treatment to our citizens.

[Brian M]

Originally Posted by anchskier

The only problem with that is that you will have zero points going into the 2011 tier I system (since you didn't apply this year) against others that have 2 points from 2009 and 2010.

True. That's just the way I have to take it, though, if I'm not willing to only hunt in 13 next year. I'll start accruing points in 2011, I suppose.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Brian M

Because the Board of Game says so.


Soo....will we be seeing you at the next board of game meeting? Lunch is on me.

If BrianM's buying lunch . . .when is the meeting?

[Vince]

Originally Posted by jmg

If BrianM's buying lunch . . .when is the meeting?

i guess thats the only way to see him...

i tried to buy him dinner the other week and failed to show...

so Brian.. is buying next time.

[1S1K]

If you are awarded a Tier 1 caribou permit you nor any member of your household can hunt caribou or moose outside of unit 13. If you're awarded a permit your points go to zero. If you fail to apply for a year your points go to zero.

I don't understand the all or nothing that some of you are crying about. If you get the permit go kill a caribou and go moose hunting outside of unit 13 with your buddies. There's no law that says you can't be in another gmu with your buddies who are legal to kill moose.

I have 5-6 buddies that I hunt with. We all will not get a Tier 1 permit. If I get a permit then they will help me get my caribou and I'll still go into moose camp and shoot brown bears, wolves, beers, and just be a part of the experience. Does everyone on here really need a whole moose just for themselves? Between the 5 or 6 of us in my camp we get 1 or 2 moose a season and divide the meat up. So, I don't understand why people feel they have to choose between Tier 1 and being a part of a moose camp that is not in GMU 13.

Now, I can completely understand if between now and March 31, 2010 a guy or gal has to decide whether to book a caribou or moose hunt with money down that's a different story. But, come on - apply for the Tier 1 and if you get it, kill a caribou, then go bear hunting with your buddie while he is moose hunting. Just don't shoot the moose or tag it.