See post 390 and related in All Things Knik/Jim Creek :
See post 390 and related in All Things Knik/Jim Creek :
Shooters: Clean up your spent shells, targets and generally leave the area better than how you found it.
Idiots: Stop shooting at signs.
But, I don't think the folks causing the bulk of the problems are gonna be here on the forums reading and reforming their ways.. 'Peer' pressure alone is just not enough in an area easily accessible to 300K people, from my experience.
Its a wide spread problem and not isolated to this area. What do you recommend? Gun control? Or how about trail cameras to photo potential offenders? IMO, someone with the the lack of class to pick up after themselves or shoot signs would easily use the camera as a target.
Sorry, not trying to speak for you. What do you recommend.
Maybe the answer would be for the state to build a full scale trap and skeet set-up out there after they finish the rifle part. That would fix the direction of fire to miss any trails and localize any hulls people don't pick up. Sounds win-win to me.
There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.
My own recommendation is that DNR MLW effectively use the enforcement budget we fought for in Juneau and that folks demand this change and a presence (babysitter). Advocacy.
The valley is WAY overdue for our own full scale range. No matter what there is still going to be people shooting stuff up but a real range would get a lot of us average joes out of the bush "ranges". I don't mind ranges, I just don't want to drive all the way to Birchwood just to put a few rounds through my rifles or test a couple loads. I would like to see one that has more than just a field with some targets. A couple pistol courses would be really nice!!
I just talked with Clark Cox at DNR and they will up the frequency of patrols to the Jim Lake area (KRPUA Lakes Unit). Nobody wants to see the level of mess and most importantly, the very dangerous shooting that is occurring. Thanks, Clark!
Make those phone calls to Troopers when you observe idiots.
I'm not justifying it, nor trying to throw my hands up, but one of the prices of freedom is even the idiots have guns!
Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.
If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.
I looked at the pics in post 390. It sure is a shame that a few idiots are ruining opportunities for responsible people. These same idiots are most likely shooting and drinking while tearing up the outdoor recreation areas. Take note of the shot up pony keg...
Unfortunately the poor officer that responds to this type of ignorance will be out gunned, out numbered and putting his own life in harms way when he tries to enforce the clean up or bust the drunk armed offenders.
You are spot on, Marshall. Same crowd. It's a lifestyle.
All publicly funded planning efforts, up until this last one, wisely recommended (the Susitna Plan even had an ignored "must comply" clause) significantly higher levels of enforcement and management for this historically problematic and very heavily used area. It was named critical habitat in 1985 by Alaska Commissioners of DNR and F&G. Amazing how 'political will' can take such steps backward.
How to make things better is a real challenge when identified, concentrated, supposedly managed situations are this awry. And yes, it is dangerous for strapped, underfunded enforcement officers. Access limits their response time, also.
A presence is needed on site and many do not believe it will improve until that happens.
i have seen some interesting things out there....including but not limited to: a pile of shot up fire extinguishers, a snowmachine in the parking lot on fire and no one around, folks shooting onto mud lake while its frozen at clay pidgeons propped up in the snow...but before i seen those i noticed where the bullets were landing about 1000 yards away as i was coming up to the parking lot on my snowmachine...i was out there this past weekend and the shooting seemed to be creating avalanches too...unless it was just a coincidence....but after what one would think echo would have stopped you could hear rocks tumbling.....but since enforcement has limited the valley to basically this one area to shoot what else do you expect.....you put a thousand pounds of crap in one pile and its going to stink
"early to bed, early to rise, fish like hell, and make up lies"
ya i like the shooting, but its true i dont like the litter left behind or the shooting in a unsafe direction, what they need is a free shooters class in this state for the kids to go to so they know how to shoot safe.
While I don't believe anything short of a rash of citations will make much difference, I was encouraged tonight, there were only a few hulls scattered around, and after pushing them into a pile a small gray chevy pulled up, the gentleman driving go out and started cleaning up. Maybe if we give this the attention it deserves the people that count will understand they are not alone, and asking someone to clean up their mess is OK. Not much but it's a start. As for calling the troopers ,what number would one use to report litter? Lets face it there are more pressing issues. I think we are the best chance we have, by being there ,using the area and asking others to clean up after themselves, maybe we can at least keep it to a minimum.
Make road sign so that they deflect the bullet back on the shooter. Would only take a few times before even the mentally deficient caught on.
I remember shooting out there before the Knik Bridges and the new road to Palmer was opened. It was getting trashed then. That type of behavior is what criminals do and they will always have guns. Stepped up enforcement and stiffer penalties might help, if the funds are there for more enforcement officers. Need big fines with the fines directed to the enforcement costs, community work service cleaning up trash and legislation to allow public flogging.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
The fine is a measly $75 for discharging in a no shooting zone and $50 for using unapproved targets.
Now, I have nearly eaten lead in Knik 3 times - once had my child down behind a cottonwood dodging auto weapon fire.
Do I think those fines are near high enough when I see fools are still firing towards trails? As an individual that made the legislative session in Juneau to get enforcement funding , do I think enforcement has improved enough yet ??
A constant presence is needed, at least until a turnaround is affected - that way idiots will be deterred from screwing up before they begin. Too many errant bullets. This is a real result of the very heavy use and years of " .. sacrificial management". - Loeffler, DNR SC Director, at the beginning of the Knik process.