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Thread: wise guide outfitter, guide has disappeared, tom murray were are you.

  1. #1
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    Default wise guide outfitter, guide has disappeared, tom murray were are you.

    Tom Murray of wise guide outfitters are you out there?i purchased trip for 4 on his web sight then is deleted,, he does have a web page attached to rentalboatcharters.com, type in wise guide outfitters at the top of that page , same phone number and no answers. lost 0ver 7000.00 so far.any info please email me at bcc65@yahoo.com thanks.or contact alaska state troopers also, they are aware of Tom Murray of Wise Guide Outfitters of coopers landing, SEVERAL COMPLAINTS SO FAR. I was looking so much toward this trip of alife time . one pissed outdoorsman and ebay or pay pal does not cover it after 45 days.
    4 days on the kenia ,,,,one day on seward for halibut and one fly in trip lost!!!!!

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    Member skybust's Avatar
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    Man that sucks sorry to hear I hope the get him.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Sad to hear again. Sorry to say you are not the first, many others have posted the same thing here.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ers-landing-Ak.

    Hope you salvage your trip.

    Steve
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"
    Founding Member
    http://www.residenthuntersofalaska.org/

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    Default Latin 101

    Your is a sad tale, and I am sorry to hear it. I make no judgement to your particular circumstance (litigation awareness), but will offer some tips to those reading this thread.

    Get references, always.
    Evaluate prepayment deposits throughly.
    Utilize the membership roster of any local chamber of commerence.

    None of these are guarantees, but they certainly can't hurt you, and in actuality can assist you in the right decision. Fraud knows no boundries, including the recreational industry.

    Caveat Emptor; Latin for "let the buyer beware"...applicable in any circumstance in the exchange of money...

    Rosenberg/Florida
    Kodiak, 9 days...
    "Two decades researching and defining fishing opportunities in the Last Frontier!"


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    Contact the AK Attorney general and troopers ASAP. You probably won't get your money bac but maybe in 5-10 yrs this creep will spend sometime behind bars. I've been scammed by a contractor and a specialty ammo shop over the past 15 years and in both cases I filed complaints which years later resulted in legal action by the states in which they occurred. I'm sorry your in this situation. You can always point out ways you could gave dine it differently but that doesn't make this situation any better.

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    Member salmon_bone's Avatar
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    go here and post a complaint so that other people will see it, hopefully
    http://www.landbigfish.com/charters/...m?charter=5911

  7. #7

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    I had the same experience with Tom last fall. Unfortunately you can never be too careful as I fished with Tom twice before and gave referances for him to others that subsequently got ripped off.

    I have some info that may be helpful. Both for the trooper who is investigating this and some folks in the area that helped us put our trip back together last fall. Yeah I had to pay for it twice but salvaged the trip and have since got over it.

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    Member Dupont Spinner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamoe View Post
    Tom Murray of wise guide outfitters are you out there?i purchased trip for 4 on his web sight then is deleted,, he does have a web page attached to rentalboatcharters.com, type in wise guide outfitters at the top of that page , same phone number and no answers. lost 0ver 7000.00 so far.any info please email me at bcc65@yahoo.com thanks.or contact alaska state troopers also, they are aware of Tom Murray of Wise Guide Outfitters of coopers landing, SEVERAL COMPLAINTS SO FAR. I was looking so much toward this trip of alife time . one pissed outdoorsman and ebay or pay pal does not cover it after 45 days.
    4 days on the kenia ,,,,one day on seward for halibut and one fly in trip lost!!!!!
    When are you coming for your trip? We may be able to hook you up with some help as far as salvaging parts of your trip. Many help trperk last summer maybe we can do it again.....

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupont Spinner View Post
    Many help trperk last summer maybe we can do it again.....
    These guys sure did. Showed me that there are fanatastic people out there still!

  10. #10
    Member akjeff's Avatar
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    I am assuming you are from out of state. You got scammed on the internet doing an interstate transaction, so I would take it here.

    http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

    I have no idea what kind of time frame is involved, but this is the FBI and that is what we pay them to do. The Federal Gov has vast resources and can turn the heat up pretty hot if they want. Due to the interstate nature of this fraud, this may not even be within the AK State Troopers jurisdiction.

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    I hear the guy is broke so your chances of seeing any money back are not good no matter who you talk to. Why is that guy not in jail?? He is a first class jerk.

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    Bernard,
    None of your suggestions would have made any differance in this guides case. He had met all of the three areas you suggested.
    I am not defending the guy, just letting you know that I did those things and they all came back rosey.
    Luckily I was not one of the ones caught up in this mess. If he had skipped out one month earlier- I WOULD HAVE BEEN.
    And I got my moneys worth on the trip. Was not my style of fishing, but I got what I paid for.

    KGPCR,
    To my knowledge this man has never been found. Not sure if his family (wife & son in Utah) even know where he is or if they have every been found. He did have some property there in Cooper Landing that could possibly be used as repayment (I think he owned it, but not sure).

  13. #13

    Default References irrelevant - request copy of surety bond before putting down deposit

    Great references and a nickel won't get you a cup of coffee if the guide wanks as this one did:

    Instead, next time you book a trip, request a copy of the surety bond, and check that it is current, before putting down a deposit - it needs to be on file with the State. That bond will cover you no matter how broke the dude becomes later. Problem is - the Wise guy dude likely didn't have any. I posted links to a similar - more recent - sad story involving Kaufmann's in Washington State.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ht=#post958092

    You might wanna inform the IRS - since stealing your deposits, while also theft - is a business transaction for which this Wise Guy dude did not likely pay taxes. When the Feds caught wind of Kaufmann's shenanigans, they seized everything. He declared bankruptcy - and hasn't been seen since - tho he has a lawyer.

    If the IRS/Feds get into it, the Wise guy will at best not lead a normal life if he is not caught. At the very least - no credit cards, no bank accounts, no pay stubs, no property ownership, not even a driver's license,.....and no involvement in the fishing trade.....at least in North America. But that won't be assurance he will ever get caught (or even pursued)....the cash/fake ID lifestyle constitutes about 10% of our population (illegal aliens)

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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Question: if references dont do it for potential clients what does? If some red flags are raised they should be looked at. With the new boat we just purchased, we searched craigslist for trolling motors, anchors, boat trailers, etc...those are thousands of dollar items. We got names and places of employmet for the individuals selling the items and we lucked out! But the red flags didnt popup so we sent checks and used paypal, we even sent friends in the area to look at the items.
    Providing trips for multilpe species for over 20 yrs
    www.kodiakcombos.com

  15. #15

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    Ebay and Pay Pal might not cover your losses after 45 days, but if you paid Pay Pal with your bank Visa, your bank should be able to make it right. My 2 cases, unauthorized online fraud and another where someone took my money for a product over the internet and never shipped, my credit union credited my account and their fraud division took over. Get chummy with your bank, they may help you out here.

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    Too bad. I knew this guy and he was a great guide in his time. He used to run Alaska Wildland Adventures river program years ago. I guess you never know.....

    What is a Surety Bond. I have been guiding up here for over fifteen years and have never heard of such a thing............

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    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    Too bad. I knew this guy and he was a great guide in his time. He used to run Alaska Wildland Adventures river program years ago. I guess you never know.....

    What is a Surety Bond. I have been guiding up here for over fifteen years and have never heard of such a thing............
    Pretty sure they aren't required up here for guides. I've never heard of it, and I've dealt with bonds before. Car dealers, for example, have to have a $25,000 surety bond with the DMV. This is to protect both the consumer and the gov't from fraudulent practices. The theory being if they have that money essentially on hold so they behave, they probably will. If they don't, they may not get it back.

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    UPDATED ON TOM MURRAY

    Guide accused of charging for Kenai fishing trips, failing to provide them
    CHARGED: After trips were paid for, Murray "lost it" and left state.
    By CASEY GROVE
    Anchorage Daily News
    By CASEY GROVE Anchorage Daily News
    Published: December 16th, 2011 12:23 AM
    Last Modified: December 16th, 2011 12:23 AM
    A longtime Kenai Peninsula fishing guide bilked more than $90,000 from clients who paid for fishing trips that he failed to provide in 2010 and 2011, according to Alaska Wildlife Troopers.
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    tool goes here Thomas Murray, who operated Wise Guide Outfitters out of Cooper Landing but lived in Cedar Hills, Utah, also failed to pay more than $27,000 to area lodges and other guides for their services, troopers said. And despite his Utah residency, Murray, 35, collected Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend checks for three years, according to a charging document filed Dec. 8 in Kenai court.
    Murray, who was served with a summons in Utah on Wednesday, is charged with one count of fraud and four counts of theft.
    Murray used the online payment service PayPal to collect money for the all-inclusive fishing vacations from 29 separate groups of anglers totalling 69 individuals, according to the charges. The would-be fishermen were never provided with the five-day fishing trips, meals, lodging, campfires or sightseeing tours Murray promised for $1,100 per person, the charges say.
    Murray advertised on eBay, offering the discounted rate to fill in gaps in his summer schedule, said Assistant Attorney General Clint Campion.
    "It was a pretty good deal, it seemed like," Campion said. "The concept there is those people are paying everything for the trip, not just a deposit."
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    Murray first became a licensed fishing guide in Alaska in 1991 and started Wise Guide Outfitters in 2003. He started using eBay in 2005, the charges say. Mostly, Murray coordinated the trips, picking up the clients and driving them to Cooper Landing where they stayed and fished with other guides, Campion said. But on some occasions he would do the guiding himself, Campion said.
    Bayard, Neb., farmer Mike Leever found Murray's business through eBay three or four years ago, Leever said by phone Thursday.
    Every summer, Leever turns his attention from raising corn and feeding cattle to fishing for salmon and trout in Alaska, he said. Murray provided a great fishing experience at a lower cost than other guides, and Leever fished with Wise Guide two summers, he said.
    "I kind of liked the guy. He was a likeable guy," Leever said. "But I guess he was a wolf in sheep's skin."
    Things turned sour with Murray after an August 2010 fishing trip, Leever said. Leever's group didn't catch any king salmon and Murray cut short their trip, Leever said. Afterward, Murray said he'd make it up to Leever if he booked another trip for the following year.
    According to the charges, Leever paid $2,250 for the next year's fishing trip. About a month after the payment, Murray said in an email that he was having surgery for a brain tumor and wouldn't be returning to Alaska to guide Murray or anybody else. Then Murray stopped writing, the charges say.
    "And it was just, chop, nothing anymore, like he fell off the world," Leever said. "Around here, a man's word is as good as gold. But he was just a fraud."
    The charges paint a similar picture for three other alleged victims. Troopers say there were many others. An Alaska investigator flew to Utah to interview Murray in March, Campion said.
    Murray told the investigator he decided to leave Alaska early during the 2010 fishing season and left about a dozen people without the vacations for which they'd paid. According to the charging document, Murray said he "took off in August 2010 from Alaska because he just 'kind of lost it.' "
    "He had 'no idea' if he was going to provide the fishing trips he had sold for 2011 and he had not notified any of his clients that he was not going to be in Alaska during the 2011 fishing season," according to the charges.
    Campion said Murray did not explain the comment about how he "lost it," nor did he provide any specific details about any medical procedures related to a brain tumor.

    Reach Casey Grove at casey.grove@adn.com or 257-4589.
    Copyright 2011 Anchorage Daily News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2011/12/15/222002...#storylink=cpy

  19. #19

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    I'll say that it's tough to get screwed when the guide you hire is an AK resident, and actually live in the community they operate out of.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    I'll say that it's tough to get screwed when the guide you hire is an AK resident, and actually live in the community they operate out of.
    Not always. There are bad operators who live in state and out state.

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