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Thread: Winchester ammo warning

  1. #1
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    Default Winchester ammo warning

    Hey, to those of you (if there is any) who shoot the 32 special, I have found out that, its not your gun that is the problem, if your shooting winchester ammo, it is dumpy,

    It is actually .318, NOT .323, a theory is when winchester bought the dies for the 32 special, they bought 8mm dies, wich, when they bought them, they were .318 then, right after that, they changed to .323, but winchester didn't want to spend more money on it so they are manufacturing .318 caliber bullets wich tumble down the barrel.....figures.


    I was holding around 30 inch groups with the winchester ammo at 75 yards, I switched to federal (a couple bucks more per box) and was getting those satasfying 1 inch groups again at 50 yards, and I could hit a 6 inch target every shot at 150 yards with open sights.

    Can't get much better than that.

    Only a heads up, I don't know if they have done similar things with other bullets, but keep an eye on em.
    Eccleasties 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, There for the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil.

  2. #2
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    Default .32 / 8mm bullet diameters

    The .32 Special bullets are actually closer to .321 in the references I have while standard 8mm bullets are .323. The .318 would be correct for the orginal 8x57 J or I bore while the .323 is for the later more common and more powerful S bore. The 8x57 J or I bore hasn't been loaded in this country for many decades while the S bore is still popular and loaded by most everyone.

    I was looking at getting some .321 .32 Special bullets for my J bore 8x57 drilling as the jackets would be lighter weight than the .323 bullets intended for the more powerfull S bore 8x57.

    I really can't see why Winchester would have or load .318 bullets for anything unless they used the same bullets years ago for the old Mauser ammo. Have you confirmed that the ammo is actually .318 and not .321? Also note - if you shoot the .323 bullets you will probably get no expansion at the .32 Spl velocities.


    Quote Originally Posted by FurFishGame View Post
    Hey, to those of you (if there is any) who shoot the 32 special, I have found out that, its not your gun that is the problem, if your shooting winchester ammo, it is dumpy,

    It is actually .318, NOT .323, a theory is when winchester bought the dies for the 32 special, they bought 8mm dies, wich, when they bought them, they were .318 then, right after that, they changed to .323, but winchester didn't want to spend more money on it so they are manufacturing .318 caliber bullets wich tumble down the barrel.....figures.

    I was holding around 30 inch groups with the winchester ammo at 75 yards, I switched to federal (a couple bucks more per box) and was getting those satasfying 1 inch groups again at 50 yards, and I could hit a 6 inch target every shot at 150 yards with open sights.

    Can't get much better than that.

    Only a heads up, I don't know if they have done similar things with other bullets, but keep an eye on em.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default

    I'm glad you got your old rifle shooting again but I seriously doubt that Winchester ever made any .318" bullets. They have no record of loading the the 7.92x57 I (J). Your story about the dies is not even realistic.... I have some Western ammo for the 8mm Mauser, so the box says and it measures .3185" these are FMJ's, round nose and made in the 1920's. A post WW-I venture. I have a Winchester ammo book, (actually every makers ammo) and there is no mention of 8x57 I (J) or 7.92x57 or anything made that used .318" diameter bullets. They made 8x57 S with .323" bullets (spitzer) but they only made .322" bullets for the 32 Special. I do however recall seeing in some years past, a box of Winchester ammo specifically loaded for the 8x57 J. So they may have made such but the 8mm bullets were never made flat nosed as were all bullets for the 32 Special/32-40. I'm sure Winchester can make the correct diameter bullet for their own rifles.

    I own a very nice 1950's vintage Sako/FN rifle made in 8x57....7.92x57 and it's bore slugged .318" ish. It is marked with a "I". If I could find a cheap source for .318" bullets I'd shoot it more.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Hey I did find in my stash a box of Winchester Super Speed 8m/mx57 Mauser ammo only three rounds in the red and yellow box but it has 170 grain soft point, sort of a flat round nose, bullet. The bullet looks like a 32 Special bullet......it measures .3223", .3222" and .3224"....Soooo these could be for the 32 Special or the bullet Winchester chose to use in the 8 mm Mauser cartridge. These are post WW-II ammo. The more likely scenario is that Winchester used the more popular (at the time) 32 Special bullet in the less often loaded 8mm Mauser.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  5. #5
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    The German "I" and "J" are often confused - both are a nominal ".318" diameter versus the .323 for the "S" bore.

    For a modern rifle the .321 .32 Spec. bullets should work work fine - I've looked a sizing them down to .318 or so for my Merkel drilling but my barrel is much thinner than your Sako so I have to be more carefull. I've got a stash of .318 RWS bullets I bought some years ago so I'm not desperate yet. For my drillings casr bullets are also an option for deer sized game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I'm glad you got your old rifle shooting again but I seriously doubt that Winchester ever made any .318" bullets. They have no record of loading the the 7.92x57 I (J). Your story about the dies is not even realistic.... I have some Western ammo for the 8mm Mauser, so the box says and it measures .3185" these are FMJ's, round nose and made in the 1920's. A post WW-I venture. I have a Winchester ammo book, (actually every makers ammo) and there is no mention of 8x57 I (J) or 7.92x57 or anything made that used .318" diameter bullets. They made 8x57 S with .323" bullets (spitzer) but they only made .322" bullets for the 32 Special. I do however recall seeing in some years past, a box of Winchester ammo specifically loaded for the 8x57 J. So they may have made such but the 8mm bullets were never made flat nosed as were all bullets for the 32 Special/32-40. I'm sure Winchester can make the correct diameter bullet for their own rifles.

    I own a very nice 1950's vintage Sako/FN rifle made in 8x57....7.92x57 and it's bore slugged .318" ish. It is marked with a "I". If I could find a cheap source for .318" bullets I'd shoot it more.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Have you confirmed that the ammo is actually .318 and not .321? Also note - if you shoot the .323 bullets you will probably get no expansion at the .32 Spl velocities.
    I can put the bullet in the barrel and see alotta light in the barrel when I stick a flashlight in the breech. I can wiggle it back and forth too.

    As for not expanding, I shot a moose with it and dads got a bear, and a ton of deer and it expanded like a normal bullet, with alotta fragmenting and expansion.
    Eccleasties 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, There for the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil.

  7. #7
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    A .318 bullet in a .323 barrel isn't all that loose - the .005 difference is less than the thickness of two sheets of paper.

    I'll slug the bore and see what it actually measures.

    Also - did you ever measure the .32 Win. Sp. factor ammo bullets?


    Quote Originally Posted by FurFishGame View Post
    I can put the bullet in the barrel and see alotta light in the barrel when I stick a flashlight in the breech. I can wiggle it back and forth too.

    As for not expanding, I shot a moose with it and dads got a bear, and a ton of deer and it expanded like a normal bullet, with alotta fragmenting and expansion.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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