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Thread: Mental health trust employees going too far?

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default Mental health trust employees going too far?

    OK, So I went down to the south side of the Kasilof to help erect fencing for protection of the dunes Thursday night. I pitched a tent right at the end of North Cohoe road, right on the entrance to the beach. All night long people were driving down with 4 wheelers or trucks so needless to say I didn't get much sleep.
    So the next night I back up the road about 200 yards to where there is a pull-off. Beyond the pull-off, there is a cable and a sliding gate, denying access, which opened up to a small clearing. I know this is mental health trust lands which the state holds, for the mental health trust. There is approximately 122 acres there.
    Being tired, I thought I would throw a tent up and try to get some sleep. After all, setting up guardrails, on the dunes is pretty hard work since we were doing it all by hand.
    So I park outside the gate, throw up my tent inside the gate, and crash for the night. No fire, just a tent, air mattress, pump and a paperback novel. I assume that since this is state land, it wouldn't hurt anybody to throw a tent up for the night.
    I jump up the next day, Saturday, and run down to the beach, to work some more. At noon, I come back and my stuff is gone. Somebody with a key, unlocked the gate and cable, drove in, picked my stuff up and left, locking that same gate and cable back up.
    I know this because there where no tire tracks the night before or when I left in the AM.
    I tried to make a police report in Soldotna Trooper office but all patrols were on the other side of the borough.
    So, my question is, did a state employeee go to far? I told the dispatcher that even if it was state land, my stuff was gone so to me it was theft.
    Anybody else have a similar problem either this year or last? Does anybody know if Mental health Trust even have an office on the Peninsula? It's memorial day weekend so I can't do any leg work until Tuesday. That's another thing, why would a state employee be on patrol on such a weekend? Mental health should not have patrol officers so I am confused. Either they started their own little enforcement action or it is a zealous employee doing it on his own. All I know is somebody with a key took my property. Thoughts???
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    A private property issue ...AGAIN.... sorry Whop but you were on private property, (Hence the Gate)... Asking you to leave would have been better and more reasonable, but you did BLATANTLY ignore the chain and signs. it's kinda ironic seeing as you were building fencing to protect the dunes and ignored fencing protecting private property. JMO

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    My deal is that this is state land. Are we not all state residents? Property where I was was not posted, only fenced to keep people from driving through it. Just like that same fence I'm installing, just to keep vehicles out, not camping or people on foot. While we were installing our fence, people asked and we told them camp away, just no vehicle access. Those were my same thoughts where I put up my tent.

    If this was owned by a private individual, I would respect that but this is still state land. I utilize DNR land and I use state Agriculture lands and there have been state employees there at the time. No one has told me it's private propert ot ever tried to run me off.. It is my belief that state lands are to be used by its residents, not locked up like in private ownership.
    The state hols all its lands in trust for its people. This is not a private property issue in my eyes so, hence my arguement. These are all state agencies, holding state properties. I might be wrong here but that is my opinion. It is like saying I need to ask the Governor or his designee permission to camp out at point Mac. State lands out there too. It's legal to camp out there too. What makes mental health trust any differant? That is still a state agency.
    Last edited by thewhop2000; 05-29-2011 at 11:36. Reason: more info
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    FWIW: It is important to understand that Trust Lands are managed separately from other State of Alaska lands, in accordance with regulations adopted in 1997. The regulations provide that Trust Lands are managed solely in the best interest of the Alaska Mental Health Trust and its beneficiaries

    and here is a nother thread on the issue

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...NO-TRESPASSING

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Man, I just read that thread and boy does it stink. State land treated like private ownership? Looks like I'll be contacting my Senator and Representative. I just don't agree but thanks for the info. I was not aware of any of this and I knew somebody was going to set me straight. When you post something like this you run the risk of having stones thrown at you or pointed in the right direction, information wise. Thanks RET25. You set me straight, now off to write my reps to B____tch about this
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    I agree on your stance Whop ... but it's going to get worse.. if it were up to the "beneficiaries"....

    "Unfettered public access to the area creates a potential for vandalism and theft problems
    that would be expensive and difficult to monitor. Closure to public use, except by
    specific authorization, is necessary for the following reasons: provides a minimal level of
    security for Trust property and equipment; reduces the potential for resource damage;
    minimizes the potential for refuse accumulation that could create animal-human conflicts;
    reduces the potential for liability claims against the Trust in a remote and dangerous area;
    and; increases the potential for a significant revenue stream to the Trust through
    exclusive commercial big game guiding services".

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    The line is always drawn somewhere, but the confusion it's understandable with populism/socialism/communism we practice in this state. We all own the fish, we all own the oil, we all own the land. Won't be long you'll be able to camp at my house cause we're all alaskans when that happens everyone with a hot tub beware I like to soak in the buff
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkb View Post
    The line is always drawn somewhere, but the confusion it's understandable with populism/socialism/communism we practice in this state. We all own the fish, we all own the oil, we all own the land. Won't be long you'll be able to camp at my house cause we're all alaskans when that happens everyone with a hot tub beware I like to soak in the buff
    as long as your fridge is full, I don't care how you swing ( I meant swim)..lol

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member power drifter's Avatar
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    They even let the homeless get their crap back.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Come Tuesday, I will post with the results. I'm telling them, give me a ticket of some sort but I want my stuff back. WE will see how this plays out. State employee or not, I'm still filing theft of property charges. See what happens with that too. Quasi semi private corporations just stick in my jaw, sorry to say. Either you are private or not, there should be no middle ground to hide behind. Especially when it is state run and sanctioned.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    JKB, the fence is to keep vehicles out, not people or campers. There is not a one way street. Read the posts above, just don't assume!!! Anybody can go beyond the fence, just not vehicles that destroy the grasses. Don't you people get it? Protecting the grasses and dunes, camp where you want, just don't tear stuff up with the ATV's or four wheel drive vehicles!!!!
    Last edited by thewhop2000; 05-29-2011 at 21:07. Reason: .........
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    JKB, the fence is to keep vehicles out, not people or campers. There is not a one way street. Read the posts above, just don't assume!!! Anybody can go beyond the fence, just not vehicles that destroy the grasses. Don't you people get it? Protecting the grasses and dunes, camp where you want, just don't tear stuff up with the ATV's!!!
    I totally get the need for fences they make great neighbors. I just don't understand why your so bent about someone who you assume was a state employee taking your stuff. Maybe it was just a thief. When folks start waving the populist flag I get a little irritated.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    JKB, my stuff was taken by a person that had a key to the gate. Hence, the tire tracks on both sides of the fence as they drove up to my tent, that is a state employee or a past employee. As per Hippie, cry as you might, this has become a personal tit and tat so I will withdraw. I asked for information, not a personal attack from either end. I never said PU fish should be sent outside or such. If I share a jar, well, excuse me, my bad. Hey Mr. Chumsack, nice try, ain't working. Non- Alaskans? Who ever advocated that? Not me? I didn't make up the new language, the Commish did, take it up with her, I was only the messenger, not the impetus behind the language. You still don't get it, State land should be state land, no matter who benefits from it but, hey... does not fit into you own little definition, so every body else is wrong. Carry on dude, I'm going out to look for the lost dog. I got better things to do than sit here and argue!!
    Sir; had you but taken a moment to google the trust, you would never have posted your question. Your arrogance of this situation is only exceeded by your ignorance of it. Mental health lands are not state lands. They are private property plain and simple. File your charges, trespassing is against the law.


    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...lth+land+trust May i suggest some reading before you continue to flap your flipper, and dig you self any deeper hole in the sand.

    http://www.mhtrustland.org/

    You will not only find the answer to your original question, but perhaps you may learn a little more about our state in the process.
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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squab View Post
    Sir; had you but taken a moment to google the trust, you would never have posted your question. Your arrogance of this situation is only exceeded by your ignorance of it. Mental health lands are not state lands. They are private property plain and simple. File your charges, trespassing is against the law.


    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...lth+land+trust May i suggest some reading before you continue to flap your flipper, and dig you self any deeper hole in the sand.

    http://www.mhtrustland.org/

    You will not only find the answer to your original question, but perhaps you may learn a little more about our state in the process.
    Thank You Sir. Rep sent.

    Digging holes in the sand....<grin> Nawwwww....TOO easy!
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, please leave the personal comments out of it. Please.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    OK, so I posted a number of question to learn of my situation and am now branded arrogant and ignorant? I thought that I was opening up myself to be critiqued and to learn something. Seems like the sharks are circling and are looking for a kill. Flapping my flipper is what I am good at, if only to learn something new. So... I will trade my property for a chance to be heard in court, so I'm looking for a state attorney to file charges in exchange for my tent and all effects. Will let you know what happens but meanwhile, keep your personal attacks to your self, thank you very much. I didn't post to be degraded or ridiculed, I posted to learn from others that might have experienced the same situation. Again Holier than thou attitudes do prevail, just read the above!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Hey, if you were in Anchorage and camping they would be required to post a notice for you to move first...thanks to the ACLU.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Chuckle chuckle!!! Good point!!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Whop, even though your belongings were on someone elses property, you still have legal right to them. Not saying you were in the right but if you hired an attorney you would probably get stuff back or get reimbursed for replacement. Someone leaving their belongings on your property doesn't mean they become yours and you can do what you want with them. Do some research and I'm sure you'll find a variety of laws which could be used in your favor. Everything from landlord/tenant laws to abandon vehicles have sections addressing property ownership and rights of removal. There's probably multiple laws/statutes dealing with your situation.

    Did you know that if I abandon a car in your driveway that you can't load it up and haul it to the recycler or junk yard, nor will they come pick it up. You would be lucky if you could get it towed because the tow company knows no one will claim it. There's a list of due dilegence responsibilities you have to go through and a series of waiting periods before you can legally claim it as yours and have it removed. The sad thing is, the best thing you could do is push it into the street in the middle of the night because the state or city will have to label it as a hazard and deal with it in short order.

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    Default I'm with ya

    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Seems like the sharks are circling and are looking for a kill. Flapping my flipper is what I am good at, if only to learn something new.
    Sorry they got so arrogant with your stuff, and I don't think you were out of line on here.

    Doubly sorry I wasn't onsite there to offer you a spare bunk; that would have prevented all of this.

    Your story reminds me of a time I was parked on the Kenai beach in front of Native owned and posted property. Yes, not on, but in front of, and off of any thoroughfare and not on any dune grass. And the Kenai cops gave my vehicle(s) an official warning to move or be moved. I moved, but wasn't happy about it.

    Sorry, my friend.

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