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Thread: .458 too big for the 454 casull?

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    Member winibezold's Avatar
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    Default .458 too big for the 454 casull?

    I have been pouring over the available bullets for my 454 lately and have been left wanting something heavier and more stable but have come up short. I noticed there is a pretty good supply of solids and heavy expanding bullets in 458 diameter for rifles, but very few if any for the 454 casull due to the casull needing the 452 bullets. Does anyone know why the 454 has to use the 452 bullets and can't use a standard 458 rifle bullet? I am most intrigued by a good brass or guilding metal solid for dangerous game use in the 400 to 500 grain range? any ideas????? resizing is not an option at this time

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    Oh yeah, way big. You could probably get a custom shop to build you a pass-through sizing die to squeeze a .458 down to .452, but then you're into the realm of needing a new cannelure, not to mention OAL problems versus loss of case capacity. Better off to check out HAWK BULLETS and their 350 grain FP with .025 jackets or 300 grain with .035 jackets if you want more muscle. They've got .454 diameter FPs up to 400 grains with .025 jackets, but better minds than mine will have to tell if .454 is okay for your needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by winibezold View Post
    I have been pouring over the available bullets for my 454 lately and have been left wanting something heavier and more stable but have come up short. I noticed there is a pretty good supply of solids and heavy expanding bullets in 458 diameter for rifles, but very few if any for the 454 casull due to the casull needing the 452 bullets. Does anyone know why the 454 has to use the 452 bullets and can't use a standard 458 rifle bullet? I am most intrigued by a good brass or guilding metal solid for dangerous game use in the 400 to 500 grain range? any ideas????? resizing is not an option at this time
    As has already been stated.... .458 is a BIG no no in the 454 casull..

    If you go to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php, there are plenty of guys who can make you up whatever size/weight bullet you want in any hardness. Inexpensive as well...

    I have had good luck with Michael with Illinois Bullet Co. He is pretty much my go to guy for everything in the .451-.453 diameter.... he makes GREAT bullets...

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    I'm not sure what gun you are shooting, but when you start approaching 400 gr you start running out of room for powder unless you can seat your bullet really long. The other thing is that you can't get enough velocity from a 454 case to need a bullet tougher than a hard cast especially when you are shooting bullets in the 400gr or more. Also heavier means longer which is less stable. The 454 is plenty potent with bullets in the 300/350gr area. I am curiuos as to why you might want a 400/500gr bullet.

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    Member winibezold's Avatar
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    I appreciate all the input, I am exploring the possiblities of this round for hunting and dangerous game defense. I have been reading alot and have found numerous cases where cast bullets over 400gr were used, and I was just wonding about the possibilities. I think I will rpobably settle in the 325-350 range in either cast performance or barnes buster if I can find it. I shoot a Raging Bull 454 with 6 1/2 inch barrel, very accurate and manageable due to the porting, maybe someone has a particularly good raging bull load????? just fishing......

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Round you up some Stoner 330g cast (.452Ē) and put it over 23g to 26g of H110/W296 or 21g to 24g of LilGun with CCI450 primers. Stoner is here in the Valley and makes very good boolets for good price but 330 is his largest. You canít very effectively go over 350G in 454 anyway and a 330 @ 11-1400 fps is more than enough, the question becomes how hot you can still handle it within that range.

    Reloading forum sponsor Arctic Ammo & Reloading Supplies (357-3381) carries Stoner boolets and is easier than tracking Lee Stoner himself down.
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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    As mentioned, there are several issues. Even if you seated a .458" bullet in the case, it is unlikely you would be able to fit the loaded round into the cylinder, and if you did manage to get into the cylinder, your pressures would dramatically increase, with the potential of catastrophic failure of the gun. The two options for extra heavy bullets are either to use a swaging die to run .458" bullets through, the downside is spring back which will result in a bullet core that is slightly smaller in dia than the jacket, and as mentioned having a canalure where needed.

    There are two other issues, is your guns barrel twist fast enough to stabalize the extra long bullet? And the issue of room for powder and the fact that pressures rise dramatically in handguns as bullets get heavier and the powder capacity shrinks, and where will you find published data for those bullets?

    If you want to shoot 400 gr and heavier bullets, I highly recomend getting a .475" or 50 caliber handgun. IMHO when you want more killing power, at some point you have to step up in caliber, and to me the 400-450 gr range is ideal in the .475's, 450+gr range is territory for the 50's.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

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    I second the vote for Stoner bullets. Top notch quality. I use the 330's in my 460. If you absolutely MUST go bigger, get ahold of Ranger Rick. He might have what you're after.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

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    I've been experimenting with this very thing. You can size a .458 cast boolit down to .454 or .452. I do it with my Lubsizer but you could do commercial boolits with a Lee push through sizer die that you use in your reloading press. I have one of those as well. Cheap but effective. But, depending on the boolit you start to run out of crimp groove and you have to consider nose length.

    This is from an RCBS 45-405-fn mould. It's between 420-435 gr depending on the alloy. Not much crimp groove. 454 brass trimmed to 1.365, seated to crimp groove the it barely fits in the SRH cylinder. About 20-21 gr H110 pushed it to about 1100 in my 4" Redhawk with the 454 Cylinder. Problem is the jump crimp after 4 shots and bind up. I'm going to try a Lyman 457643 400gr that has a little shorter nose and deeper crimp groove. I'd like to have a 400gr load that will shoot in the RH and Levergun.



    Lyman 457643...



    Here are some guys from Norway I think, that do some interesting stuff with heavy boolits in the 454 in Africa.

    http://www.calibros.com/frontier390/...for%20big5.htm

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    Default Reduced diameter bullets

    I wanted some heavy bullets for my .500 S&W so I sized down some 565 gr. cast .512 bullets for the .500 Nitro Express to .501. For extremetly hard bullets I used the Lee press mounted die and then lubed them in my Lyman lubesizer. Sizing some of the large bullets can take some significant force.

    I loaded these ahead of 40 gr. of H110 and 38 gr. of Litl'gun and they seemed to work very well although the recoil was rather stiff in my 4" barreled gun. Note: these loads are for S&W and similar strong steel framed guns- DO NOT USE in Rugers!

    Hope to get down to the range and chronograph these loads - I'll try to post some pictures and results later.

    I'm planning to cast some heavy 500 gr .45-70 bullets and do the same for my .460. Got to get the melting pot fired up again soon - the fish (along with the bears) are coming.
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    Default .500 565 gr update

    Rechecked my data - load was actually 30 gr of H110 or 28 gr. of Lil'gun.

    Chronographed the load this afternoon at 1160 fps - not bad for a 565 gr. slug out of a 4" barrel revolver!


    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I wanted some heavy bullets for my .500 S&W so I sized down some 565 gr. cast .512 bullets for the .500 Nitro Express to .501. For extremetly hard bullets I used the Lee press mounted die and then lubed them in my Lyman lubesizer. Sizing some of the large bullets can take some significant force.

    I loaded these ahead of 40 gr. of H110 and 38 gr. of Litl'gun and they seemed to work very well although the recoil was rather stiff in my 4" barreled gun. Note: these loads are for S&W and similar strong steel framed guns- DO NOT USE in Rugers!

    Hope to get down to the range and chronograph these loads - I'll try to post some pictures and results later.

    I'm planning to cast some heavy 500 gr .45-70 bullets and do the same for my .460. Got to get the melting pot fired up again soon - the fish (along with the bears) are coming.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Rechecked my data - load was actually 30 gr of H110 or 28 gr. of Lil'gun.

    Chronographed the load this afternoon at 1160 fps - not bad for a 565 gr. slug out of a 4" barrel revolver!
    I donít load for 500 but I was thinking them powder charges were quite sporty behind that much lead.
    Andy
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