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Thread: Motor set-up for 20' double-ender?

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    Default Motor set-up for 20' double-ender?

    We picked up an Old Town Tripper XL for river trips with a family of five, mostly paddling. One thing I'd like to do is get out in the Minto Flats and back, accessing via the Chatanika River off the Murphy Dome spur road. Side motor mounts I've looked at say they're rated for 2-3 HP. One motor shop told me a motor that size would be OK on a lake but wouldn't get us upstream against a current (as in, a current like you see on the Lower Chena).

    Is there a motor set-up that would work for motoring upstream in a 20' double-ender canoe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cache_creeker View Post
    We picked up an Old Town Tripper XL for river trips with a family of five, mostly paddling. One thing I'd like to do is get out in the Minto Flats and back, accessing via the Chatanika River off the Murphy Dome spur road. Side motor mounts I've looked at say they're rated for 2-3 HP. One motor shop told me a motor that size would be OK on a lake but wouldn't get us upstream against a current (as in, a current like you see on the Lower Chena).

    Is there a motor set-up that would work for motoring upstream in a 20' double-ender canoe?
    I've seen one setup designed for a 9.9/15 hp outboard on a 20' double ender. It was a lift setup as well, so great for shallow running. I think the weight is the biggest issue. The one I know of was a custom made lift, including tool boxes on the opposite side to counter balance the outboard. It does put a lot of weight at the end of the boat, but enough bow weight and you can offset it. I doubt you will be able to find any commercially available model due to the low amount of interest and that I don't think many would design something knowing boats it would be put on aren't rated for anything that size (usually a max of 5hp).

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    I've run my 17.5 wenonah cascade up the chena with a side mounted 2hp yamaha two stroke. The whole load was a 80lb dog and maybe forty pounds of gear...the canoe is an 80lb whitewater hull....that yamaha made good time, had no problem pushing upriver.. If you are in Fairbanks, you're welcome to try the yamaha on my side mount. You could run it on the lower chena and see if you needed more.....

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    ANCHSKIER

    Do you think there is a photo or 2 of the lift I thint there is a lot of intrest on that lift, I know I am
    .
    [PLEASE]

    SID

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    Who said an outboard wont do it? I run a electric trolling motor off of a marine battery that has significantly less power than an out board and it does great on the chena.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cache_creeker View Post
    We picked up an Old Town Tripper XL for river trips with a family of five, mostly paddling. One thing I'd like to do is get out in the Minto Flats and back, accessing via the Chatanika River off the Murphy Dome spur road. Side motor mounts I've looked at say they're rated for 2-3 HP. One motor shop told me a motor that size would be OK on a lake but wouldn't get us upstream against a current (as in, a current like you see on the Lower Chena).

    Is there a motor set-up that would work for motoring upstream in a 20' double-ender canoe?
    If you need help building a transom that will handle a six horse motor, let me know. I have a custom way of building a transom that is centered off the back of big beamy tripahs. At lowest trim, the lower unit would sit about 1 inch from the stern, and the skeg will sit about 4 inches below the bottom of the canoe. I wouldn't put it on anything but a large 18-20 ft. double ender. Shoot me a PM if you want one built and built right. I'll discuss the design a bit further if yah pm me, if not, you'd have to wait till late fall because I have a new esquif cargo atop the truck that needs a few months worth of scratches on her new pretty royalex hull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    ANCHSKIER

    Do you think there is a photo or 2 of the lift I thint there is a lot of intrest on that lift, I know I am
    .
    [PLEASE]

    SID
    I don't have anything really handy. I might see if I can locate something after a bit more digging, but no guarantees.

    If I recall correctly, it isn't really all that different than the square stern versions, just with the mount extended to the side instead of having the motor located in the center. He had to install brackets to mount the tool boxes (2 x G.I. Cans) on the opposite side to counter-balance the setup. I think that the location of the prop in relation to the side of the boat generated more spray than the square stern version, necessitating a full skirt that was attached to the lift and the gunnel of the boat, but that is pretty easy to make up if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    If you need help building a transom that will handle a six horse motor, let me know. I have a custom way of building a transom that is centered off the back of big beamy tripahs. At lowest trim, the lower unit would sit about 1 inch from the stern, and the skeg will sit about 4 inches below the bottom of the canoe. I wouldn't put it on anything but a large 18-20 ft. double ender. Shoot me a PM if you want one built and built right. I'll discuss the design a bit further if yah pm me, if not, you'd have to wait till late fall because I have a new esquif cargo atop the truck that needs a few months worth of scratches on her new pretty royalex hull.
    Hi Mainer, I could use some advice on how to build such a transom. Can't seem to get PM to work.

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    Piper--I will take you up on that offer it I can find you. I could come in to town either day this weekend to try it out. Send me an email through my profile page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cache_creeker View Post
    Hi Mainer, I could use some advice on how to build such a transom. Can't seem to get PM to work.
    Do a "send email" to him until you have enough posts to have PM rights. He does very good work.

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    Default Murphy dome ext. to Minto flats

    I recently made the trip from the Murphy access point on the Chatanika to one of the lakes just North of Minto Lake. The trip was a little short of 30 miles one way. I run a 17' Grumman square stern with a 6 hp Mercury. On this trip I was pretty well loaded. My fishing partner and I come in a little over 400 lbs. with an additional 100 lbs. of gear (multi day trip) and 15 gallons of gas. The downstream trip is simple. The return trip was more of a challenge. About 10 miles upstream from the Chatanika/Goldstream confluence the Chatanika current picks up. Running between 7 and 8 miles per hour, per the gps, I burn just over a gallon of gas every 10 to 12 miles against a moderate current. The last 6 or 8 miles cost me almost 2 gallons. To maintain my moderate pace I had to run wide open. The last 1 to 1.5 miles were very slow, even at full throttle. I would not recommend running a smaller motor with a full load. As the river goes down it will get easier to walk your canoe up the worst portion of the river.The trip was was nice. The steep banks inhibit a lot of wildlife viewing but there is still plenty to see. There are a few campsites on the Chatanika. I would be happy to send you the locations. Each of the sites require some careful maneuvering and boat docking but they are nice and flat with plenty of space for a couple of tents. Good luck with your transom and ensuing trip.

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    on the 17 SQ. end, did you have no lift, one you can adj.when you stop, or one of the good lifts that you can adj when under full power do let us know it sounds like you had no or one you had to stop adj ?????

    SID

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    I have a tripper xl, with a mercury 9hp 2 stroke motor.... I also widened the canoe from 41 inches to 46 inches.... Also widened the bow and kneel.... Going up river an electric motor is a joke. Need at least a 5-6 hp.... Make sure it's a 2 stroke because they r lighter then a 4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Briinh View Post
    I have a tripper xl, with a mercury 9hp 2 stroke motor.... I also widened the canoe from 41 inches to 46 inches.... Also widened the bow and kneel.... Going up river an electric motor is a joke. Need at least a 5-6 hp.... Make sure it's a 2 stroke because they r lighter then a 4
    How do you widen the Tripper?

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    The Old Town Canoe website recommends a 3 HP for their standard (side) motor mount. I have a 2 HP Johnson short shaft two-stroke and it works okay on my 20 foot XL, but you really cannot throttle up much because water begins to splash into the boat because of a side-mounted motor. You may be able to rig up a rear lift assembly, but this would add weight and balance issues, and you would probably have trouble steering with the hand tiller and controlling throttle. This side motor mount works better on the 20 foot XL than my 17 foot Tripper, though. I have thought about cutting a transom into the stern of the XL, but it paddles too nice as a double ender. This forum has discussions about other larger freighter canoes with transoms that would work better with a motor than a double ended canoe.

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    We run old 6 or 8 up Johnsons on 20 ft trippers and grummans. They mount on the Left side and we tilt the lower unit slightly away from the hull to help with right turns. We used them on lakes and rivers in Maine and only rivers now since we built some hb style freighters. I will se if I have some good pictures and can figure out how to post them if people are still interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OkProf View Post
    I recently made the trip from the Murphy access point on the Chatanika to one of the lakes just North of Minto Lake. The trip was a little short of 30 miles one way. I run a 17' Grumman square stern with a 6 hp Mercury. On this trip I was pretty well loaded. My fishing partner and I come in a little over 400 lbs. with an additional 100 lbs. of gear (multi day trip) and 15 gallons of gas. The downstream trip is simple. The return trip was more of a challenge. About 10 miles upstream from the Chatanika/Goldstream confluence the Chatanika current picks up. Running between 7 and 8 miles per hour, per the gps, I burn just over a gallon of gas every 10 to 12 miles against a moderate current. The last 6 or 8 miles cost me almost 2 gallons. To maintain my moderate pace I had to run wide open. The last 1 to 1.5 miles were very slow, even at full throttle. I would not recommend running a smaller motor with a full load. As the river goes down it will get easier to walk your canoe up the worst portion of the river.The trip was was nice. The steep banks inhibit a lot of wildlife viewing but there is still plenty to see. There are a few campsites on the Chatanika. I would be happy to send you the locations. Each of the sites require some careful maneuvering and boat docking but they are nice and flat with plenty of space for a couple of tents. Good luck with your transom and ensuing trip.
    Great info here. This helps me a lot. I would really like to do the lower Chat with my square stern Grumman with Klingle lift and 7.5 hp merc. I agree about the steep banks but it's still a cool area if you can figure out how to do it. I wouldn't have a large load and I can always make my bowman paddle.

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