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Thread: Can a Private Message make me cry......Yes.

  1. #1

    Default Can a Private Message make me cry......Yes.

    Moderators: I put this under Hunting because it is most relevant to hunting.

    I received this "Private Message" this morning. Yes, it made me cry. I have struggled to grasp the mindset of those on this Forum who call me: "Troll" for no reason that I can grasp other than they disagree with me. I have no issue with disagreement, if fact it is the portal for insight.

    This PM made crystal clear for me the polarization of the mindset that seems to befall a younger generation on Alaskans.

    To the sender: Thank you for the Private Message, it has allowed me to comprehend today, what I did not comprehend yesterday.



    Hey..(AGL4now)
    Send me a "Grocery list", I'd be happy to deliver you some supplies... Gratis.

    Just tell me some stories about the old days for payment. I'm "Born and Raised" Alaska, my Dad came up in '50..He was 4yrs old. I was born too late... Wish I could have seen Alaska when he was a kid!

    I love Alaska, and will live here forever. I despise the transient "Hunter's" that are on this site. They have no pride or respect for Alaska.. Get it while you can, before you get transferred! Seems to be the "Theme" around here. Pisses me off.

  2. #2
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing that AGL4.

    Its been a sentiment of mine for a long while that one of the most significant challenges Alaska faces is that such a large segment of the population turns over every few years and the resulting "Gold Rush" mentality that accompanies it. Get here, get your critter (or money, or adventure, or whatever) and then get home- consequences be ****ed. I want to say the statistics show 20% annually or thereabouts if I recall correctly.

    So many folks here are only looking at being in Alaska for 2, 3, maybe 4 years and then leaving for good- not 20,30 or 40 years and with consideration for what they'll be leaving behind for their kids.

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    While I compliment this young mans gesture toward you, I'm saddened by his attitude toward the many military hunters we have that he is displaying.
    There are bad apples in every bunch, but from what I've seen the % is no higher in that group than any other. Most of the "transient hunters" are a great bunch of folks & respectful of our resources. They are here because our military moved them here while they are spending their time serving our nation, my family, for the cause of safety & freedom. I hope that during their stay they are able to have many great hunting experiences in Alaska.

    By thyw way, my father in law is 89, & came here to stay right after WWII (was actually here for a year before it started). He became a bush pilot & then a guide & guided during the l50s through maybe the late 60s or early 70s, along with starting an air service & comercial fishing in the 50s. I love the stories! I'm one of the latecomers that missed out (came 23 yrs ago) but still love what's left.

    Oh, & I don't think you are a troll. Just a bit crotchety at times :-)
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

  4. #4

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    [QUOTE=Vance in AK;944756]While I compliment this young mans gesture toward you, I'm saddened by his attitude toward the many military hunters we have that he is displaying.
    There are bad apples in every bunch, but from what I've seen the % is no higher in that group than any other. Most of the "transient hunters" are a great bunch of folks & respectful of our resources. They are here because our military moved them here while they are spending their time serving our nation, my family, for the cause of safety & freedom. I hope that during their stay they are able to have many great hunting experiences in Alaska. [End Quote].



    There are lots of other transients than just military, Many Corporations rotate employees to broaden their experience. The federal Government rotates federal employees other than Military. I myself came to Alaska Feb. 3, 1970 and I had NO intention of staying. Truth is I came only to hunt Bears, I fell painfully in love with Alaska, oddly Not her beauty, but Alaska's Vibrant Harmonic Aliveness.

    I am going to start another thread about Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" much of the book is about "Rite of Passage". I know there will be a "Hell'Storm" over it, but I think that for me and many young men (Yes, no one will admit it) the killing of an animal, especially a bear or lion/tiger is perceived as a passage into manhood.

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    Vance, I was not thinking Military when I read that Message... Just like AGL said...lot more transient than the military..

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    AGL,

    Don't take this the wrong way, but often hard for me to tell when you're serious or not. If that pm made you cry...well hmmm, you cry easy <grin>.

    "Despise" is a pretty strong word too, from the sender, as to the transient hunters that are on this site he mentions. I'm with Vance I guess in being saddened in a way if he views all so-called transients that way. But also with hodgeman in recognizing that whenever and wherever you have such a high turnover of a population it can cause problems.

    Our kids were likely born near the same time as the sender, maybe later. They grew up out here, raised in the bush, now at college, but they can still find the "old" Alaska, it's just a matter of getting off the beaten track(s). Then again, I have felt ever since a young boy I was born a few hundred years too late myself, so I get that part of it.

    As to Campbell's Power of Myth, not sure which parts you intend to discuss, certainly there are aspects that may not fit the forum guidelines and be welcomed. FYI, the entire six part six hour interview Campbell did with Moyer on that is available online.

    Have you by chance read any of Paul Shephard's work? ( http://home.earthlink.net/~frshepard/ ) He speaks much to the same kind of things.

    You might enjoy this Letter Delivered to me by a Bear that Paul closed with while giving a talk in 1994.

    Best,


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    [QUOTE=AGL4now;944761]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vance in AK View Post
    There are lots of other transients than just military, Many Corporations rotate employees to broaden their experience. The federal Government rotates federal employees other than Military.
    While that is true, our military makes up the largest percentage of that transient group by far.
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]AGL,

    Don't take this the wrong way, but often hard for me to tell when you're serious or not. If that pm made you cry...well hmmm, you cry easy <grin>.

    As to Campbell's Power of Myth, not sure which parts you intend to discuss, certainly there are aspects that may not fit the forum guidelines and be welcomed. FYI, the entire six part six hour interview Campbell did with Moyer on that is available online.
    I had the great privilege to attend a Live Forum in which Joseph Campbell and John Denver & Fernando Flores & I think Bartram Russell were panel.

    I guess I don't have much human contact, and yes despise may have been strong, but I was moved that there are youths (anyone under 40) who get the awesome Majesty that Alaska is. And that harvesting the animal is only a part of the hunting experience.

    As to crying I have no problem with being moved to tears by the printed word, or the Majesty of the Wilderness. I am secure in my Manhood.

  9. #9

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    [QUOTE=Vance in AK;944892]
    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post

    While that is true, our military makes up the largest percentage of that transient group by far.

    Transient was his word. For me I have an issue with anyone (Transient or committed for life long, LONG time Alaska resident) that races past the fields of Mountain Lupine in Turnagain Pass in the race to get to Seward.

    This whole structure of people being in debt, and having to work, that their private recreational time is so short, that everything is race, race, race. I never go out on the Highway on Friday through Monday.

    Hunting is a process, Not an End, if one does not embrace the process, one will not feel satisfied with the end. (The process includes the rain, the wind, the fog, the cold & damp, the sunburn, the failed stalks, the missed shots, cold wet feet, etc.).

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vance in AK View Post
    ... I'm saddened by his attitude toward the many military hunters we have that he is displaying.
    )
    Oddly enough, when I read the OP I didn't think about military transients at all. I guess in my experience most of the military guys I personally know have been here for a pretty long time- I realize that's an anomaly however and a lot of the larger bases shuffle folks in and out like crazy. Probably a big difference between Guard and Active posts.

    Most of the "transients" that I know are corporate or gov't- not military. I've even interviewed a couple of folks who said right up front that they wanted to come up work a year or so, then quit the job and go on a multi-month hunting spree with their new found "residency"- then leave. As a prospective employer I didn't think too much of that.

    After 12 years in AK- I now have more friends Outside than here, and I met them all in Alaska.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=AGL4now;944913Hunting is a process, Not an End, if one does not embrace the process, one will not feel satisfied with the end. (The process includes the rain, the wind, the fog, the cold & damp, the sunburn, the failed stalks, the missed shots, cold wet feet, etc.).[/QUOTE]

    +1 Too bad I'm all outta rep for you...that's well put.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    Oddly enough, when I read the OP I didn't think about military transients at all. I guess in my experience most of the military guys I personally know have been here for a pretty long time
    And super cool guys.

    I more thought of profesional hunter yuppie types when I read the OP.
    "When the time comes for a man to look his Maker in the eye, where better could the meeting be held than in the wilderness?"

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    Member ProHunterAK's Avatar
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    I saw a mix of "military and pipeline/Adventurists" directed in the OP but that's to be expected. With the military always under the spot light with things it does give more a bad rep than good. I myself was stationed in fairbanks from 05-08 then PCS'd to Fort Lewis, WA in 08 deployed back to Iraq then came back and saw a offer to come back to Alaska and jumped on it, knowing I was leaving for Afghanistan if I accepted I still jumped at the opportunity because I loved life up here. It is a small price to pay to be and live where you want to. I plan on staying in Alaska well after my military career. My kids were born here and I hope they are willing to have their own children in this great state!

    "Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."

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    [QUOTE=AGL4now;944913]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vance in AK View Post
    Hunting is a process, Not an End, if one does not embrace the process, one will not feel satisfied with the end. (The process includes the rain, the wind, the fog, the cold & damp, the sunburn, the failed stalks, the missed shots, cold wet feet, etc.).
    Couldn't agree more. If it was just about pulling the trigger it would be cheaper meat to go kill a fenced buffalo on Kodiak.
    I come home empty handed most of the time, but I am renewed, refreshed, & reawakened.
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

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    Ya know, I've been a transient hunter living here since 89. That is of course thanks to being able to travel and transient in Texas, South Dakota, Montana and anywhere else I can afford to hunt for a week or two (HA). Some of the locals view me as a transient when I flew out of Aniak to hunt caribou. I'll Transient out of Kodiak again this year :O) Yup, this transient pursuit and love of the outdoors has blessed me and I thank you for getting me to look at it that way. Jeff

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    Member tustumena_lake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Transient was his word. For me I have an issue with anyone (Transient or committed for life long, LONG time Alaska resident) that races past the fields of Mountain Lupine in Turnagain Pass in the race to get to Seward.

    This whole structure of people being in debt, and having to work, that their private recreational time is so short, that everything is race, race, race. I never go out on the Highway on Friday through Monday.

    Hunting is a process, Not an End, if one does not embrace the process, one will not feel satisfied with the end. (The process includes the rain, the wind, the fog, the cold & damp, the sunburn, the failed stalks, the missed shots, cold wet feet, etc.).
    Thereís a fine art to going slow away from the crowds in Alaska and in my experience the recipee for baking that cake takes three main ingredients.

    The time to do it, the desire for it, and being comfortable with being alone a lot of the time.

    By circumstance or by choice many have not chosen this path in life and thatís ok. Part of the recipee is missing for them. Really, who can can judge a man thatís not walked in his shoes and is aware of his obligations or situation or desires. Many have financial obligations associated with family or the preference to experience things with others around them.

    Is one path greater than the other ? Well, not really if itís the path each has chosen for themselves as best for them.

    Anyway, I won't be racing past beautiful Turnagain Pass this summer on the way to Seward. Iím taking the back way alone, slow and easy, by foot and raft down Russian Lakes trail and Resurrection river cause thats what works for me.

    resurrectionriveraerial.jpg

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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    I am going to start another thread about Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" much of the book is about "Rite of Passage". I know there will be a "Hell'Storm" over it, but I think that for me and many young men (Yes, no one will admit it) the killing of an animal, especially a bear or lion/tiger is perceived as a passage into manhood.[/QUOTE]

    For us hunters and outdoorsmen and women, Campbell's book puts words to the feelings of awe and respect we feel for our quarry and the land around us. For those who've never come across him, get the book over the video series. Bill Moyers' interview style is just too sappy. Campbell discusses the relationship between hunter and prey. We all will recognize through our experience what he is talking about in professorial language.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by tustumena_lake View Post
    Is one path greater than the other ? Well, not really if itís the path each has chosen for themselves as best for them.

    I guess where I disagree is: I think most people are sadly NOT living their LIFE. I think most people are living the life that they got Conned into largely by Madison Avenue advertising and that awful soul sucking (Opium for the masses) Television thingie.

    People get sucked into so much debt. They get seduced into believing that the quality of their life will be enhanced if they go into debt for a new shiny whatever. Now they are not living their life, they are pawns/slaves to the parasites that loan them the money.

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    Transient military hunters and the local old timers (doesn't matter to me), I think both of these groups could do a much better job of taking care of the land.

    I agree that the military as of lately has plenty of money to spend on new toys and trips. It upsets me to see fellow Soldiers disrespect the land, the locals, and waste their money.

    I have to say though, has anyone seen the trashy residences north of Fairbanks. Those homes from about the Johansen Hwy, past Olnes & Hilltop all the way to I think Sunshine are really bad. I don't think that's military residences and in my opinion are unacceptable.

    I know comments like this are like stirring a hornets nest, but it's not not meant that way. I waited several years to get my chance to hunt in a pristine area and if I had a chance to live here forever, I know that my poperty wold not be littered like those north of Fairbanks.

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    Thoughts from a probable transient:

    We can't all be out of work or retired, nor can we all be hunting guides.

    We hunt with the intention (note the word choice - intention, not expectation) of being successful. Don't you?

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