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Thread: Shooting Hard cast in a Glock 20 question

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    Member sniper3083006's Avatar
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    Default Shooting Hard cast in a Glock 20 question

    I am contemplating getting a Glock 20 10mm and want to shoot Heavy hard cast bullets by Buffalo Bore and other such companies.
    My questions are is there a need to change recoil spring and rod and is there really any merit in going with a after market barrel?
    I have read several post in other forums that people are still shooting their standard barrels with no problems if they clean the barrels occasionaly during long shooting sessions.
    I still want this set up to be ultra reliable as I value my skin as much as the next guy.
    Rich

  2. #2

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    sniper,

    I have a G20 and I have read a lot of internet forum threads/posts on the same subject that you are looking into. From what I have read the standard Glock polygonal barrel may have dangerous fouling problems with hard cast bullets. I've read that several times. How true it is I don't know first hand so I don't want to misrepresent my knowledge about this. As for the spring weight I'll be interested in follwing your thread and seeing what others have to say. There are certainly some real smart folks that have more experience with Glocks and hard casts than I do on this forum.

    I plan to get a 6 inch barrel and I plan to purchase it from Lone Wolf for 2 reasons - 1. with a longer barrel there will be a velocity increase from any load over the 4.6 inch barrel, and 2. there have been no reported or theoretical problems using hard cast bullets with the LW barrels that I know of. Both of their length barrels are supposed to be drop-in barrels with no fitting necessary. The standard length LW barrels are 109.95 and the 6 inch are 124.95. The Lone Wolf contact number is Phone: 208-437-0612. I tried to call Glock in Smyrna GA to get a better answer for you (Tel.: +1 770 - 432 1202) but I was on perpetual hold and I gave up after 10 minutes. Glock says nothing for or against hard cast lead bullets on their website.

    Maybe you can get through to Glock. I left a message with Glock's customer service folks and I will let you know what they say if they call me back. The LW folks are usually much easier to get a hold of and pretty easy to work with, but as fate would have it, I had to leave a message with their customer service folks too. I was trying to get the best info for you but I hit a brick wall with answering machines today. Sorry.

    MyTime

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    Member sniper3083006's Avatar
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    No prob MyTime thanks for all that.
    On the fouling note I had read that to but most of what I was reading about that was with extended shooting or shooting some rounds putting gun away without cleaning shooting some more... same thing over and over again without maintenance and then one day KABOOM.
    There were several post in many forums where thousands of rounds were shot with heavy hard cast on standard modern i.e. G20 gen3 and 4 with no problems if care was taken to keep the gun clean.
    I am with you on the replacement barrel though. I just want to see if others on here have actually found true about heavy hard cast with standard equipment what I had found on other forums before I get hog wild on this spending spree for a G20. I darn sure dont want to touch one off and KABOOM.

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    Member sniper3083006's Avatar
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    Default Heres is one thread I found

    started reading another thread about Wolf barrels and the leading problems with Glock barrels, and found the reference to the unsupported chambers. I wrote the reply below, but figured it would be better to start another thread, as this will probably draw a lot of fire, so let her rip!

    Have a Glock 20 (10mm) and have started shooting cast bullets over the last couple months. Stock barrel, with Wolf spring kit through out. Have had no leading problems with the stock barrel, and towel dropped Lyman 401638, 175gr TC, from WW.
    But I do have a question, http://shootersforum.com/images/smil...fused.gifevery one is referring to an unsupported chamber in their stock Glock barrels.
    My chamber measures .429, new ammunition measures .423, my reloads measure .423, and fired factory and reloads all come out .427 to .428. None of these look pregnant. Where the **** were your barrels made and what dimensions are they?
    I just checked a friends S&W manufactured .40 S&W, and it has the same dimensions as my 10mm, except for chamber length, and cases come out of that gun with the same OD as those from my Glock.

    I would really like to hear some reply's to this.

    I also pickup a lot of range brass and have to date, not found any .40 S&W brass that looks pregnant and at least some portion of this brass has come from Glock's.

  5. #5

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    Sniper,

    Getting back to you as I promised. I just got off of the phone with the LW folks to get my order ready. As per LW: For each 1/2 inch of barrel length you increase FPS by approximately 50 FPS. The factory Glock barrel is not fully supported and there may be lead accumulation problems with hard cast. The guy I spoke to said he uses the 6.02 inch long slide with 200 grain Double Tap hard cast and has no problems. The have a 6.6 inch threaded barrel and that is the longest barrel they offer and he said to expect 70 (ish) FPS more than the 6.02 barrel. LW endorses Double Tap ammo and if you look at their web site, they have a little more horsepower than the BB, and from my past experience, the BB is good ammo. The 230 grain DT hard cast, as per their email to me, has about 10% more penetration than the 200 grain but they did not say what to expect on flesh (probably because they can't predict if bones are involved or not). I have read a few issues with LW barrels but very few and LW will correct problems (if I am to believe the interweb). Oh yea, he recommended a 20lb spring and a stainless steel guide rod over the stock 17 lb spring. I guess it should batter the pistol frame less if the spring takes up some of the recoil force.

    It looks good to me so far. I'm going to keep following your thread because I'm always interested in good intel.

    MyTime

  6. #6

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    My final price from Lone Wolf for the G20 long slide, including the 6.6 inch threaded barrel (extra length for more FPS and the option of putting on their comp later at a later date), for the complete slide assembly with the stainless steel guide rod and the 20lb spring, and TruGlo TFO green on green night sights was $606.62 before the $25 assembly fee and the $18.54 insured shipping fee. I hope this turns out well but in a month or so I'll know.

    Now I'm getting excited! Too bad it costs so much

    MyTime

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    Member sniper3083006's Avatar
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    I think I am gonna go with a LW standard maybe a little longer barrel where it clears the original slide if this will work. Probably use DT ammo as well maybe Buff bore. We'll see. Gonna contact LW now.
    Last edited by sniper3083006; 05-09-2011 at 13:07. Reason: left something out

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    Sniper,

    The longer barrels will work in the stock slide.

    MyTime

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTime View Post
    My final price from Lone Wolf for the G20 long slide, including the 6.6 inch threaded barrel (extra length for more FPS and the option of putting on their comp later at a later date), for the complete slide assembly with the stainless steel guide rod and the 20lb spring, and TruGlo TFO green on green night sights was $606.62 before the $25 assembly fee and the $18.54 insured shipping fee. I hope this turns out well but in a month or so I'll know.

    Now I'm getting excited! Too bad it costs so much

    MyTime
    Where are you in AK? I did a 6" Longslide setup on my G20SF and it turned out great. I'm assuming you got the slide without the ported top? If not, your TFO front sight blade will overhang into the opening, if it matters to you or not. I went with regular sights because of that and they did not offer the non ported slide when I got mine together...

    Keep us updated on performance, reliability, etc...

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    Sniper
    The unsupported barrel is not the chamber dimensions as such but is the lower rear part of the chamber that is cut away to act as part of the feed ram. Many autos are built this way but don't operate at the pressure of the 40 or 10mm. Many of the 10mm Glocks show bulging on the fired case in this area depending an the brand of ammo. As they are already on the upper end of pressure anything that could raise pressure such as a leaded barrel or over hot reloads can cause a rupture of the case in this area. most Glocks can shoot cast fine if the bullet is of correct size, hardness and proper lube. Aftermarket barrels are less picky.

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    Member sniper3083006's Avatar
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    Sorry guys I dumped the Idea as of right now for a 10mm but I did find one helluva deal on a S&W 460V, so I bought it. Time to get to practicing wooooohhhhhooooooo. Going to the range this afternoon.

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    Just throwing my .02 in here. I have been shooting Glocks and working on them for 18 years now. I have several G-20's and and shoot the heavy stuff regularly and I would recommend a heavier recoil spring and an aftermarket barrel. I use Lone Wolff barrels just because they are a great value and are pretty darn accurate. I would rather have a fully supported chamber on these stout loads and if you look at the stock barrel compared to the Lone Wolff you will definately see why you would want an aftermarket bbl.
    I'm running a 24# spring on a stainless guide rod and it takes the snap right out of the stout loads and it still cycles 180gr American Eagle red box without a hiccup.
    If you want to go heavy it makes sense to relieve the gun and yourself from as much punishment as possible.
    I still need to get a 6" slide going on one of mine...

    Mountaintrekker

  13. #13
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaintrekker View Post
    I still need to get a 6" slide going on one of mine...

    Mountaintrekker
    Choices, choices....










    Just to whet your appetite...

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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Sweet pics man.



    This thread is the final motivation I need to get that KKM barrel. Standard length for me.


    Saw one for $165 on The Glock Store website.


    Cool site with tons of installation videos as well.


    Looking at the fulcrum trigger set up also. Sounds like a big upgrade on the more common 3.5 lb connector upgrade.

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Any reason for KKM over Lone Wolf? Just curious...

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    More longslide goodness?


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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    Any reason for KKM over Lone Wolf? Just curious...

    Absolutely.


    "Lone Wolf Distributors will replace any of our barrels or barrel accessories which are found to have manufacturing or material defects. Customer modifications or the use of reloaded ammunition will void this warranty."



    "All KKM barrels are made using U.S. manufactured 416 Stainless steel bar stock which is then heat treated and vacuum tempered to 42 to 45 RC. All Barrels are CNC machined to obtain superior dimensional tolerances. Using our unique Button Rifling process, all KKM barrels offer superior accuracy over stock barrels. Our Glock barrels come with fully supported match chambers for shooting factory or reloaded ammunition as well as lead or jacketed bullets."

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    Just a simple comment....I suggest you do NOT use a 3.5 lb trigger on a defensive gun. They are fine for range guns but they good off too easy when under stress and that 1.5 lbs will not be felt when a bear or other hostile is coming after you. Lawyers love to find out about "hair triggers" in civil wrongful death cases.

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    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTime View Post
    ... As per LW: For each 1/2 inch of barrel length you increase FPS by approximately 50 FPS. ...
    I wouldn't count on it. If you're adding an inch to a 2" or 3" barrel in a 10mm, that might be true: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html

    But it's not true when you get past four inches. From that line, it looks like you would get maybe 5 fps to 40 fps by going from a 5" to a 6" barrel.

    In case the hotter .41 mag loads might provide a better comparison gto the hotter 10mm loads, it looks like you gain may 60fps to 80fps for the fifth or sixth inch added to the barrel. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/41mag.html (these were tested in T/C Encore pistols with increasingly-chopped barrels, not revolvers - http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/results.html).


    That's closer to the claimed increase, but it seems that the 50 fps/half-inch is a bit optimistic, and it can be A LOT lower for many loads.

  20. #20
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Good enough reason for me, Dan! Don't roll my own yet, but I'm assuming that is just legal jargon much like what it says in the Glock manual that comes with your gun....

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