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Thread: Flying with 1LB propane bottles???

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    Member faithnhim's Avatar
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    Default Flying with 1LB propane bottles???

    Can't find any information on flying with propane bottles. Anyone have any info, opinions or rule of thumb to share? Brother in law is flying to Valdez today and so he's looking for information.

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    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    if you sit on them when you fly they wont explode.
    Semper Fi!

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    In a private plane? I've carried lots of propane from small disposables up to 100# tanks. The rule of thumb is to stand them up when possible. That shouldn't be a problem with one pounders. I've never smelled gas with the little bottles. It wouldn't hurt to keep them within reach so he could pitch one if it started to vent. Chances are darn small of that happening.

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    Member faithnhim's Avatar
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    Thanks Mr. Pid! so they have pressure relief capability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    In a private plane? I've carried lots of propane from small disposables up to 100# tanks. The rule of thumb is to stand them up when possible. That shouldn't be a problem with one pounders. I've never smelled gas with the little bottles. It wouldn't hurt to keep them within reach so he could pitch one if it started to vent. Chances are darn small of that happening.
    Mr, Pid is, as usual, correct. It's the SCUBA and/or oxygen bottles (tanks) that are hot items. They're licensed by the U.S. Bureau of Mines as explosive devices. I doubt that the small propane bottles are filled to 2,200 psi or above.

    They are to be stored upright because the bigger tanks are thicker on the botton. That's because they are refillable and may accidentally be left open to the atmosphere when empty. Any moisture from the atmosphere will settle to the bottom where the thicker metal will longer accommodate rusting. When filled, moisture in SCUBA and/or oxygen tanks should be somewhere around 4%, which would preclude most rust.

    Next lecture: DATE STAMPING OF CYLINDERS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faithnhim View Post
    Thanks Mr. Pid! so they have pressure relief capability?
    I'll butt in here again: the small propane bottles don't have overpressure vallves (bursting discs) I believe. SCUBA tanks certainly do, and can be found in several pressure ratings, 2,000 psi being the most common.

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    Member akflyer's Avatar
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    Headed that way myself in a few. I've taken them with no problem in the little bird!!

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    I haven't carried them in a plane. But backpacking and truck camping.,

    If I needed to, I'd just carry those small Colman ones wrapped in plenty of padding. If one explodes your prob done.

    I stink I'd just rent or buy one in Valdez or hunt up someone to loan ya one. Valdez folk are pretty accommodating during the Fly-In.

    RR

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    A friend in the propane business warned me to carry bottles standing so that in the event they vented or leaked they'd leak gas rather than liquefied gas. That advice was a warning to stop carrying 100# tanks laying down and switch to 40# or 60# tanks that could stand up. Personally I never paid any attention to disposable bottles in my own plane. I just toss them in. My comments about keeping them in reach so you could pitch one out the window would be an easy safety compromise if a guy was concerned about it. Honestly I don't use propane for anything but plumber's torches. All my camp toys use white gas. I carry MSR fuel bottles on virtually every flight I make.

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    Member RocketRick's Avatar
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    Whoop down the The Prospector after you get there and buy what ya need.

    There's plenty of folk that wld pick one up for ya.

    Heck, take some tuna & 4-6 sandwiches apiece and call it good. Add some crackers and candy bars & your set.

    Plus there are plenty of vendors there selling food. You cld easily get by w/o taking any cooking gear at all.

    PID has it - white gas for your whisper-lite stove is NOP. Actually, those stoves can burn a range of fuels including Mogas or Avgas.

    RR

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    Propane is forbidden on passenger planes....It can and will leak....and blow you up....

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    The rule you are looking for is CFR 49 172.101 its a table of Hazmat. What you what to do is find propane then go over to column 9a Pass Aircraft, its forbidden. column 9b Aircraft Cargo Only 150 kg or 330.69 lbs. You don't say if he is flying himself in his own airplane or taking a commuter flight as a paying passenger. I flown a lot of propane and cooking fuel like Coleman White Gas. the rule for that was full cans never been opened. Of course, it was freight only no pax.

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    Propane is forbidden on passenger planes....It can and will leak....and blow you up....
    Haz-Mat regs are for commercial aircraft (Air-Taxi and 121) - I do not believe CFR 49 applies to consumer use items; hence propane is not forbidden per-se.

    CFR 49.171 says "The Secretary is authorized to apply these regulations to persons who transport hazardous materials in commerce." If CFR 49 applied to GA non-commercial aircraft then a whole lot of things that we routinely carry would need paperwork, and the whole Haz-Mat she-bang (including training and oversight).

    Never had cause to try to explain it but it seems to me that 49CFR 175.310 might also apply. Isn't propane (LP) Liquid Propane? So a "liquid fuel" for the purposes of 175.310? In that case you actually could carry a passenger in the aircraft (in commerce or AirTaxi) with you as long as it was his or her propane. I doubt the feds would see it that way but it could fly.

    I have carried many many propane bottles in my career - including five full 100lb bottles at once, lying down on their sides <shudder> in the cabin of a Beaver. What I always did, before carrying them, was to vent a little off through the fill vent - then let them sit for a while before loading. I doubt you will get high enough in a GA airplane for the PSID to make a difference, but if they were filled early on a cold morning, and you got them loaded and on your way on a hot da,y there might be some ventage - never had it happen to me though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeaverDriver View Post
    Haz-Mat regs are for commercial aircraft (Air-Taxi and 121) - I do not believe CFR 49 applies to consumer use items; hence propane is not forbidden per-se.

    CFR 49.171 says "The Secretary is authorized to apply these regulations to persons who transport hazardous materials in commerce." If CFR 49 applied to GA non-commercial aircraft then a whole lot of things that we routinely carry would need paperwork, and the whole Haz-Mat she-bang (including training and oversight).

    Never had cause to try to explain it but it seems to me that 49CFR 175.310 might also apply. Isn't propane (LP) Liquid Propane? So a "liquid fuel" for the purposes of 175.310? In that case you actually could carry a passenger in the aircraft (in commerce or AirTaxi) with you as long as it was his or her propane. I doubt the feds would see it that way but it could fly.

    I have carried many many propane bottles in my career - including five full 100lb bottles at once, lying down on their sides <shudder> in the cabin of a Beaver. What I always did, before carrying them, was to vent a little off through the fill vent - then let them sit for a while before loading. I doubt you will get high enough in a GA airplane for the PSID to make a difference, but if they were filled early on a cold morning, and you got them loaded and on your way on a hot da,y there might be some ventage - never had it happen to me though.
    Sea level ambient pressures are around 14.7 psi. You have to climb to 18,000 to get that down to 7.4 psi, or one-half atmosphere. I think the airlines may still pressurize to 6,000-feet.

    If, when carrying the 100-lb bottles, a valve should be knocked off, there might not be enough left of the airplane (or its pilot) to worry about. Remember that they're "explosive devices" per the Bureau of Mines. Carrying them "flat" is the best answer. Venting off a few poinds isn't really necessary . . . . .

    And - - - don't those 100-pounders have brass bursting discs as do SCUBA's compressed air tanks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 1 View Post
    Sea level ambient pressures are around 14.7 psi. You have to climb to 18,000 to get that down to 7.4 psi, or one-half atmosphere. I think the airlines may still pressurize to 6,000-feet.

    If, when carrying the 100-lb bottles, a valve should be knocked off, there might not be enough left of the airplane (or its pilot) to worry about. Remember that they're "explosive devices" per the Bureau of Mines. Carrying them "flat" is the best answer. Venting off a few poinds isn't really necessary . . . . .

    And - - - don't those 100-pounders have brass bursting discs as do SCUBA's compressed air tanks?
    Not sure about the disc's never looked to tell the truth. Probably a good thing NOT to transport the 100Lb cyls without the caps over the valves in any vehicle including an airplane. Those are your protection against knocking the valve off.

    Point is that it is NOT illegal to transport propane in a NON - COMMERCE aircraft. And transporting the 1LB containers can be done safely. I always put them in the float lockers on one side and the Avgas/Mogas on the other; but would not hesitate to put the propane in the cabin if need be.

    I used to be a firefighter. Fought a fire once in a sporting goods warehouse that had pallets of these things stored as well as LOTs of ammo. After being in close proximity to these in a fully involved fire I am not too sure a couple of these 1LB bottles could cause any issue in a light GA airplane.

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