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Thread: Moose vs. ATV's

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default Moose vs. ATV's

    i had seen this study and was not surprised, lots of research has shown ATV/ORV use moves elk, often from miles away. this is the first time i have seen anything showing the same behavior in moose. i thought it was particularly curious how they avoided the trails as a corridor.

    http://news.discovery.com/earth/atv-...fe-110328.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    i had seen this study and was not surprised, lots of research has shown ATV/ORV use moves elk, often from miles away. this is the first time i have seen anything showing the same behavior in moose. i thought it was particularly curious how they avoided the trails as a corridor.

    http://news.discovery.com/earth/atv-...fe-110328.html
    I don't think it is even limited to just ATV's as far as pushing moose (or other animals for that matter) off of trails. I have seen the same thing with moose right here on the ski trails in Anchorage. For the most part, the moose don't walk right down the nicely packed ski trails but tend to stay off in the deeper snow through the woods. I assume that it is for similar reasons as to why they avoid ATV trails. It is disturbing to them to come across other "animals" or "obstacles" frequently and have to deal with them frequently. They have been trained that they encounter fewer instances by avoiding the ATV (or in my case, ski) trails. You do see them on the trails periodically, but not nearly as much as you would think considering the benefit that a nicely packed trail would be to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    i had seen this study and was not surprised, lots of research has shown ATV/ORV use moves elk, often from miles away. this is the first time i have seen anything showing the same behavior in moose. i thought it was particularly curious how they avoided the trails as a corridor.

    http://news.discovery.com/earth/atv-...fe-110328.html
    I'm not surprised either. But we've had this conversation several times on this site. A while back I made reference to moose being displaced on the Tanana flats by airboat traffic and was predictably shouted down by those citing exceptions. Same will happen here, likely. The nay sayers will just call this a ploy to try to take their ATV's away.
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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    I'll ask the moose standing in my driveway eating.

    If this study is true Rudy Whitshirk will have to quit screaming about atv hunting slaugtering all the moose. For most it's impposible to shoot over a mile.

    wish someone would show this study to the moose in anchorage that cars are a lot like atvs and maybe they could stay away from the roads.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Must be why the Salmon are avoiding the boats too...Must be.

    Splains a lot of what I have been wondering about.

    Makes a lot of sense....If you don't think about it!!!
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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkb View Post
    I'll ask the moose standing in my driveway eating.
    take a couple shots at him every once in a while, see if he sticks around...



    Quote Originally Posted by jkb View Post
    wish someone would show this study to the moose in anchorage that cars are a lot like atvs and maybe they could stay away from the roads.
    of course, if the humans in anchorage stopped and shot the moose once in a while instead of each other then i doubt they would be so complacent.
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    Yes but I think there is a law that if you are shooting inside Anchorage you have to hold your gun tilted sideways...
    Might work on a pistol but kind of tough with a rifle.
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    A ski trail is two narrow grooves in the snow that would be extremely hard for a moose to walk on. If you had a snowmobile you would fine it almost impossible to get a moose off a snowmobile trail because it a hard flat surface. Another thing if you took the time and learn something about moose behavior, you would find if a moose hears a person walking or a vehicle they walk into the brush until they feel safe and come out and continue feeding.

    I remember a report done by a biologist and paid for by anti. She took blood from local moose and from an area where moose had no human contact and compare it to determine what effect noise has in moose. The result was noise has no effect on moose.
    The anti attack the report because they like you’re are not interested in the truth.

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    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Echo View Post
    Yes but I think there is a law that if you are shooting inside Anchorage you have to hold your gun tilted sideways...
    Might work on a pistol but kind of tough with a rifle.
    Mike

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    Supporting Member sigabrt's Avatar
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    There is plenty of evidence that runs counter to the results of this study.
    "Your papers are not in order"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    A ski trail is two narrow grooves in the snow that would be extremely hard for a moose to walk on. If you had a snowmobile you would fine it almost impossible to get a moose off a snowmobile trail because it a hard flat surface. Another thing if you took the time and learn something about moose behavior, you would find if a moose hears a person walking or a vehicle they walk into the brush until they feel safe and come out and continue feeding.

    I remember a report done by a biologist and paid for by anti. She took blood from local moose and from an area where moose had no human contact and compare it to determine what effect noise has in moose. The result was noise has no effect on moose.
    The anti attack the report because they like you’re are not interested in the truth.
    oh good.
    thanks for clearing the issue up. your post is so insightful and complete i can not possibly refute it.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    A ski trail is two narrow grooves in the snow that would be extremely hard for a moose to walk on. If you had a snowmobile you would fine it almost impossible to get a moose off a snowmobile trail because it a hard flat surface. Another thing if you took the time and learn something about moose behavior, you would find if a moose hears a person walking or a vehicle they walk into the brush until they feel safe and come out and continue feeding.

    I remember a report done by a biologist and paid for by anti. She took blood from local moose and from an area where moose had no human contact and compare it to determine what effect noise has in moose. The result was noise has no effect on moose.
    The anti attack the report because they like you’re are not interested in the truth.
    Maybe some remote ski trails are like that. I am referring to groomed, packed ski trails in and around Anchorage, Fairbanks, Soldotna, etc... these are frequently 12-15' wide (wider than most snowmachine trails) and hard packed from almost daily grooming. Although you seem moose cross the trails and hang out for short periods of time, it is not all that common to see them frequently use the trail to travel on. It does appear that they tire of having to encounter humans, either on foot or on ATV's and have learned to not spend all their time on trails/paths even though it would be a much easier route.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    take a couple shots at him every once in a while, see if he sticks around...





    of course, if the humans in anchorage stopped and shot the moose once in a while instead of each other then i doubt they would be so complacent.
    The moose that do get shot at by atvs end up dead and have very little chance of being "driven" away from trails. I highly doubt the other moose put two and two together. Moose go where the habitat habitat habitat is best. I know a party that has shot 20 bulls in the same section of river in the past 9 years and the moose still cross there. It's all about pockets of game in the best habitat. The amount of moose killed in the first 5 miles of the trail out of eureka has remained shockingly high every year as long as I can remember . They've riding atvs on that section of trail for at least 30 years. Last season during the 3 brow tine slaughter in august I saw at least 10 kills within sight of the trail 50yds to 1 mile on one day trip. Take a ride up there this fall and look around you find the same amount of kills but it's great habitat. I believe this study is flawed nothing to do with fear of losing riding areas just years of sitting on high ground watching moose behaiver.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Two seasons ago my daughter had a youth tag out at Pt. Mak. The first few days we hunted, we hunted on foot and left the ATV in the truck for after we killed one. On the fourth day without seeing a moose we unloaded the ATV and struck out for exploration. As most of you know, the area is covered in ATV trails. Every single one of those trails showed huge quantities of moose traffic. On one trail it looked as if a herd of caribou had run down the trail for two miles and all the tracks were fresh. No way are you going to convince me that moose avoid ATV trails like the plague. I also know that they hear you coming from a long ways away and slink off into the woods, so hunting from the ATV is foolhardy. We spotted 5 bulls, all not legal for her tag, in one stretch of ATV trail 3 miles long. All were about 50 to 100 yards off the trail looking right at us. Had I not had me eagle eyed daughter along I would have never even seen them.

    I'd love to see the study. Depending on the time of the year, density of moose in the habitat, and type of ATV traffic (high speed sport vs. slow speed mud running) could change the results drastically. Moose don't need to be around ATV trails and if the population density is not dense enough, they most likely will avoid the trials. Pack more moose into that same habitat they will eat closer to the trails. In the winter around here I could easily collar a bunch of moose and say they avoid trails that snowmachines run on. For most of the season it's the complete truth when snow depths are low. However, when snow depths are deep they are thick on the trails and it really helps them move from food source to food source.
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    oh good.
    thanks for clearing the issue up. your post is so insightful and complete i can not possibly refute it.
    Go back and keep looking at the anti sites you love to visit, I’m sure you will find the something more to your liking.

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    Gotta be careful there. Dave's about as far from an anti as can be. Narrow your brush a bunch and disagree with him, but don't be slopping around with a wide brush. It does you and this site no good at all.

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    Member PG13's Avatar
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    I'm on board. I'm sure there are hundreds of cases of moose killed on or near trails each season. It probably has a lot to do with habitat and natural movements. Are the bulls killed early or throughout the season? Horny animals will go places they aren't supposed to in search of greater fitness. GPS collars give us greater insight than personal observation. What about the animals that you DIDN'T see from the trail? Gut piles are only a sample of the total population.

    Moose avoid trails, moose are attracted to some trail attributes (forage, ease of travel, etc), moose are indifferent to trails. It's probably year and site specific but I'll throw my vote in for moose avoiding this heavily used system.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug
    I'd love to see the study.
    One of the nice things about Ecospshere journal is nearly all content is available free online. Here you go Doug et al:
    http://www.esajournals.org/doi/full/....1?prevSearch=[all%3A+pyare]&searchHistoryKey=

    [Edit, that link didn't come through correctly, here's the pdf version:
    http://www.esajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1890/ES10-00093.1 ]

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    Since moose are members of the deer family, I think they're a lot like deer when it comes to trails. They probably use the 4 wheeler trails at night or when there's little traffic. They probably use the 4 - wheeler trails more outside of hunting season.

    I recall a bunch of folks making donations to a guy with a bull-dozer to go into the woods and cut trails for the moose. If I had a 4 wheeler, I'd be awfully tempted to use the trail cut by the dozer. So really, we are a lot like moose. We like the path of least resistance. Then again, no two people are the same ... I would think moose have different temperaments as well.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truenorthed View Post
    Since moose are members of the deer family, I think they're a lot like deer when it comes to trails. They probably use the 4 wheeler trails at night or when there's little traffic. They probably use the 4 - wheeler trails more outside of hunting season.

    I recall a bunch of folks making donations to a guy with a bull-dozer to go into the woods and cut trails for the moose. If I had a 4 wheeler, I'd be awfully tempted to use the trail cut by the dozer. So really, we are a lot like moose. We like the path of least resistance. Then again, no two people are the same ... I would think moose have different temperaments as well.
    Of course they do. Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall You want to find moose, find a powerline, siesmic line, a clear cut zone, a forest fire zone, dozer track, a river island that got ripped to shreds by ice out or any other disturbed habitat and that is where you will find the vast majority of the moose....
    But Hey....If some want to believe otherwise who I am to convince them of their ignorance!!!

    Not to mention the wisdom of finding 1 moose on a trail as opposed to finding a dozen in the bush!!!
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