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Thread: New 45-70 Guide Gun need help with loads please

  1. #1
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    Default New 45-70 Guide Gun need help with loads please

    I just bought a new 45-70 Guide Gun the other day and today while shopping at Three Bears in Palmer,on a whim, I picked up a 250 rd box of HSM 405 gr lead RNFP bullets. Really don't know any thing about this bullet but it does have a gas check. I would like to work up a load for my new lever action but not really sure where to start at as I find nothing any where on this particular bullet. None of my reloading manuals or the web has anything about them. Has any one tried any of these bullets and if so how do you like them? The price was fair and I just wanted them to use to target shoot and get use to my new rifle. The salesman at Three Bears said they have sold very well so someone should be able to help.Maybe they are a Cowboy load? About three years ago I bought a RCBS press,never having reloaded before, and with the help of this Forum I now load 9mm, 300RUM and a ton of 44mag. I am extremely careful when starting a new load and any and all advice is welcome and appreciated.

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    I have never loaded that particular bullet. You should check a Lyman manual as they probably have the most cast bullet data. I suspect you could also use data for one of the jacketed bullets of that weight, Speer, Remington, and remain safe as your lead slugs would be lower pressure. Start under max and work up. Just some thoughts.

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    I'm not familiar with it either, so can't comment on the alloy. If it's hard, you can probably snort it up pretty good if you're inclined.

    I have to say though that my favorite load for general use is a 405 grain plain base I cast myself from Lyman #2 alloy, which is fairly soft. A charge of 35 grains of IMR-4198 moves it to just over 1500fps from a 22" barrel. It's a pleasure to shoot, doesn't beat you up and is sure a stomper on game. Kills way out of proportion for its moderate velocity.

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    I've used quite a lot of 420gr gas-checked cast from wheel-weights, and loaded with 41grs IMR-4198 in my Marlin 45/70 with no problems. It's been awhile since I chrono'd them, but i think velocity was somewhere around 1750fps...quite stout. I agree with BrownBear: a charge of 35grs same powder is probably a very good load for general use, and likely a lot easier on the shoulder.

    Marshall/Ak
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    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    The HSM bullets are cast fairly hard, that combined with a gascheck should keep leading to a minimum. That being said if you want to load strictly for plinking I would suggest you get some IMR Trailboss or Alliant 2400. I don't have my load book right now but I beleive somewhere around 12-15grs of Trailboss would make a good plinking load, I use the stuff all the time in 45-70 and 30-30 with cast bullets for plinking. Great stuff, low noise and very light recoil. Also either powder can be put to good use in your 44 handloads.

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    i prefer imr4198 as it is a lower volumn powder that offers great power and velocity. 40.2 gr with the 405gr bullet crono's 1807fps in my marlin. my cast bullets ( northern star cast bullets) for hunting generally wear a gas check. good luck!this is a 200 yd group with a .405 bullet using a lyman sight. the low shot was taken at the 100 yd setting. the other three shots were taken at the 200 yd setting.
    happy trails.
    jh

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    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinehavensredrocket View Post
    this is a 200 yd group with a .405 bullet using a lyman sight. the low shot was taken at the 100 yd setting. the other three shots were taken at the 200 yd setting.
    Very nice.....
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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    reloader #7 gave me the best results with cast bullets in that weight range. cant recall the exact load data, but i think it came from the powder mfg web site.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    I now use Laser Cast 405Gr RNFP, I just find them too be very consistent. But have loaded some of those HSMs in the past. With both I loaded a standard heavy load of 44Gr of Reloader 7 and COAL 2.475in, mostly in Remington Brass. Chrono around 1850 (16.25in barrel) and fairly heafty, but not brutal recoil. Also loaded some right down to 36Gr of RL7 for light Blacktail loads, not Chrono'd.

    Best thing (for a lever gun) you can add to your RCBS set-up is a Lee Factory crimp die. Gives a really great crimp that will prevent rounds in the magazine having their bullets seat further(compressing the rounds) due to recoil.

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    for a Marlin 1895, id go with hard casted 500 grain FP's loaded up for around 1600FPS. my load consists of 41 grains of imr 3031. i don't have a chronograph. yet these in my are some major fraight trains going through the air. my advice for 45-70 guide guns heavier the better.

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    I have found Reloader 7 to be the powder of choice for my Guide Gun. I would never have believed a short lever like that would be a true MOA rifle, but it does it consistently!

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    I have one of the early ported Guide Guns, and I really like it. But here's a very serious warning or two. First, never, never, load it down below published data. A dude here was afraid of the kick, so he loaded some squibs in a brand new stainless Guide Gun and blew it to smithereens. This one was a barrel burst. The other warning is that Marlin "influenced" the mag tube towards the loading gate to help the blunt nosed bullets make the turn into the mag tube. It's possible to load a bullet where the edge of the meplat of the tipped, bottom round, engages the primer of the one above. This also can have a really bad ending. But being aware, and using common sense, will make you a very happy camper, as you learn what a wonderful machine you have with that Guide Gun. For once a major company actually built a job specific lever action rifle, that does exactly what it's supposed to do. The hotter the load, the better my ported barrel stays level, and makes for a really quick second or third shot. But you don't quite have the flexibility of the Winchester 86, which uses a straight line magazine tube, coupled with a larger loading gate. I hope this helps you get started safely. I gave up on lead bullets and am using Speer 400gr. SP's. I'm still working up loads for these, and the last outing got me a "mickey mouse" at 100yds, over sand bags at the range. With my ported barrel, I'm thinking that this jacketed bullet tops out at 1800fps. Maybe some others can get 2000fps+, but I think I've got to where I need to be, already. I've only got 17 inches, behind the ports, and the book data is probably for 24, & 26 inch barreled rifles.

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    Member stevelyn's Avatar
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    A friend of mine has developed a 405 gr gas-checked load for his Marlin using Cast-Performance flat-nosed bullets, a starting charge of 52grs of H322 and Starline brass. He's still fine tuning it.

    I'm his stand-in test shooter when the recoil starts getting the best of him. We ran a few across a chronograph which showed the highest velocity at 2005fps and the lowest at 1926. Those bullets whistle right through 10x10" and 12x12" blocks and he used it to DLP a brown bear recently. BTW, the bullet whistled through the bear too.
    Now what ?

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    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    350gr FN HV the Alaska Bullet Kodiak with Reloader 7 at 51.8

    Fed 210M primer and WW Brass

    2K FPS Load in the GG 45-70

    Also suggest crimp using the Lee Factory Crimp Die

    Hevier Bullets tend to Kick alot

    Stoner 350gr Hardcast Gas Checked makes a excellent Bear Bullet
    Alaska

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