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Thread: .22LR education needed.

  1. #1

    Default .22LR education needed.

    I have decided to get serious about .22LR shooting. Have a CZ-453 Varmint w/single set trigger. And also a CZ-452 "Super Exclusive" Ultra Lux w/28.6" barrel.

    I don't want to be buying $25.00 a box ammo. Is there a low end yet quality ammo you would suggest. I guess I could see $7.00 a box.

    Is there a good book you would recommend on this subject.......? This is just for kicks and giggles, but hoping for 1" at 50 yards seated or prone w/ open sights.

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    I have had good luck with the wolf match ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgall View Post
    I have had good luck with the wolf match ammo.
    Thanks I'll try some.

  4. #4

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    My 10/22 "Target" edition rifle (1:16 twist) really likes the Federal 40gr High Velocity Game Shock boolits.... I get consistant 1" groups at 80 yards (Through a scope, not iron sights).

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    Has anyone used Paco Kellys bullet resizer? http://www.leverguns.com/ It makes the bullet a different/uniform size although maybe a little crude as the "size" of the hammer may affect unifomity. Gets pretty good reviews although did see a couple negative remarks. Also Neil Waltz makes a resizer/reformer that is an actual die for a reloading press. Seems like a better outfit and more expensive. Did not see a website but here is a forum that talks about both and shows a picture of the Waltz die. http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...Re-Sizing-22LR Phone # in Ohio, 330-837-4818

    Of course there is the length of the ammo compared to the length of the chamber and that seems a whole new quandry as you can't lenthen or shorten the ammo. Have seen a program where they improved the accuracy of Ruger 10/22's just by shortening the chamber length. Good luck and am interested in how that long barreled Ultra Lux shoots. I have an old Winchester 67 with a long barrel, but the open sights are too fuzzy for me.

    Mark

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    There is some cheaper 22 ammo that may get the rifle to that level of accuracy but your shooting ability is something only you can control. I would start by using a good scope and bench rest to test the ammo. I would also start with the cheap bulk stuff that is available. You never know. You might get lucky. If no luck then move up to cheaper target ammo like Win T-22 or Rem std velocity. I have heard that sorting 22 ammo by rim thickness is supposed to help. There is a gauge available for that. I haven't looked lately but I think you can get Eley target ammo in the 6$/7$ range. CCI green tag is another that works for some. I would think that with a good rifle, 1" at 50yds would not be that hard to do without paying too much for ammo.

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    AG did I telly ya I shipped some Lapua X-Act up to to try it, at a COST of over $20, per box!?

    I tried some and it does in fact shoot better in my vintage HS than anyhting else in my stable (although I havent faced it off yet vs some vintage RWS)...but at my skill level, it is no better than Center-X, Pistol king, or that Fiocchi stuff (did ya get some of that).

    But I did screw around with 5 shots through my CZ 452 and even though I was just messing around, I all touched at 25 yards. Just for the halibut, Im going to try some at 100 yards off a rest.

    But Im not going to ship any up here again. I think thats ammo above my shooting grade in a pistol and I dont have a .22 benchrest gun justifying $20 a box, espeicially when in the cooler days I can do Polar Biathalon

    Good to see ya last week young fella

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgall View Post
    I have had good luck with the wolf match ammo.
    All of the high grade target .22 ammo is basically made by the same company in Germany to spec. The difference in cost is basically specification on components. Best way to look at match ammo is from the RWS page.

    "A characteristic of target shooting ist that no two barrels are identical. RWS rimfire calibre cartridges are therefor available in various types. Despite the use of the best materials and greatest care during production, there will always be slight differences, which influence the accuracy of a shot. The tolerances within in a manufacturing batch of ammunition are extremly low but there are microscopic differences from batch to batch. The accuracy of the RWS smallbore ammunition and the minimal differences from batch to batch - only noticeable when shooting - enable the right ammunition to be found for each barrel. Experienced shooters have therefore always selected between different batches to find the best RWS ammunition for their rifle barrel. When they have found the correct batch they stock up in sufficient quantity to avoid testing for some time. Following this practice of the top shooters will enable everyone to find the right ammunition for their rifle and thus improve their shooting performance.

    Thats why I hoard RWS R100

  9. #9

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    Ken, Did you get my e-mail about poking some holes in my barrel.........to reduce sound.......? I am now thinking I might be Bass'akwards thinking about this.........

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    I'm with rbuck AGL4now, I have shot a lot of 22's and for the money the Rem or Win target loads in 40 grain are pretty reliable and usually run about 3.50 - 4.00 a box of 50.....
    22's can be very fickle and it does not have to be an expensive load to shoot good - however I hardley ever find the High Velocity loads to shoot very accurately for me anyways....
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    I have decided to get serious about .22LR shooting. Have a CZ-453 Varmint w/single set trigger. And also a CZ-452 "Super Exclusive" Ultra Lux w/28.6" barrel.

    I don't want to be buying $25.00 a box ammo. Is there a low end yet quality ammo you would suggest. I guess I could see $7.00 a box.

    Is there a good book you would recommend on this subject.......? This is just for kicks and giggles, but hoping for 1" at 50 yards seated or prone w/ open sights.
    22lr is a whole 'nother world...
    try various brands

    22lr is temp sensitive, I have eley red box that shoots great, like 1" at 100yds from a couple of 3 rifles, off the erestbut falls apart at about 10F. I have to keep the ammo warm. HV sometimes holds together better at low temps

    Watch the wind and mirage, across the range

    Eley which is English, some sold by Rem is good stuff
    RWS, Fiochhi Lapua SGN Wolf
    CCI blue box, green box
    High end Federal SV
    Old Win Super X
    Aguila match

    The Rem blue box, WW Target, CCI BLazer, PMC target not so good...for me
    worse so in high end pistols, as in failure to work


    Try it all and have a blast!

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    Out of my 10/22 w/ clark bull barrel I found that the lower end Rem/Eley shot just about as well as the high end Eley. I think it's called club select or something like that and was around $7/box.

    1" at 50yds should be mechanically possible with an accurate 22rf rifle and most brands of ammo. A good rifle will shoot 1/2" at 50 yds with it's preferred match ammo.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

    If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

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    I wish I had a couple of cases of the old Win super x MarkIII. That stuff was great in my Ruger MKI T

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    I have the same CZ varmint and mine absolutely loves the Wolf match.

    I have had a couple bricks in my stash for a few years and I tried about a dozen different flavors from American eagle bulk stuff to Eley match. The two best out of my particular CZ were the Wolf and some older Eley stuff that I am not willing to pay for now a days.

    Definitely try as many as you can, it will favor something, but the CZs shoot most well. As with any rimfire there is a magic bullet for YOUR gun, they can be finicky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    I have decided to get serious about .22LR shooting. Have a CZ-453 Varmint w/single set trigger. And also a CZ-452 "Super Exclusive" Ultra Lux w/28.6" barrel.

    I don't want to be buying $25.00 a box ammo. Is there a low end yet quality ammo you would suggest. I guess I could see $7.00 a box.

    Is there a good book you would recommend on this subject.......? This is just for kicks and giggles, but hoping for 1" at 50 yards seated or prone w/ open sights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    All of the high grade target .22 ammo is basically made by the same company in Germany to spec. The difference in cost is basically specification on components. Best way to look at match ammo is from the RWS page.

    "A characteristic of target shooting ist that no two barrels are identical. RWS rimfire calibre cartridges are therefor available in various types. Despite the use of the best materials and greatest care during production, there will always be slight differences, which influence the accuracy of a shot. The tolerances within in a manufacturing batch of ammunition are extremly low but there are microscopic differences from batch to batch. The accuracy of the RWS smallbore ammunition and the minimal differences from batch to batch - only noticeable when shooting - enable the right ammunition to be found for each barrel. Experienced shooters have therefore always selected between different batches to find the best RWS ammunition for their rifle barrel. When they have found the correct batch they stock up in sufficient quantity to avoid testing for some time. Following this practice of the top shooters will enable everyone to find the right ammunition for their rifle and thus improve their shooting performance.

    Thats why I hoard RWS R100
    Ken's answer best sums up the .22LR Ammo... it's not so much about being brand specific or loyal --- it's about case lot consistency (getting a bunch of it when ya find what works), shooting conditions consistency (all things close to same as possible), equipment consistency (same gear every time), and shooter's consistency (probably most difficult discipline).

    When I shot .22 rim-fire matches of any competitive merits or trained... I used a custom Vickers Martini w/ all the bells and whistles. Super nice rifle, long barrel, select wood, wonderfully made sights.

    With the Vickers --- I'd do ammo selections often at 50 meters. Off the benchrest, I'd use one particular sized bulls-eye with a sliding paper behind it. I'd never move benchrest or target and simply slide the plain paper after every 5 or 10 shot groups. This rifle at a relatively consistent load velocity from brands/loadings of Federal UM1 Match (plus other various target grades), RWS (R100 or various match and target grades including a HV favorite I can't find anymore), ELEY (various grades including Remington distribution), Wolf Match extra (being some of the common selections) would put every single bullet at 50 meters into 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch. That's every load, on and on, one after another all day long.

    On a little different playing field --- My Walther Sportmodell will do this even despite the Mauser K98 looks w/ K98 sight picture. Your CZ is a sort of take off sporter-weight trainer design on a similar platform made today.

    Another trainer called a Polish Kbks 78 .22 training rifle will do nearly the same although it has an AK-47 sight picture so really needs a scope to get satisfying performance at 50 M.

    A Mossberg M-44 trainer will give similar results... but not w/ its little steel-tubed side-mounted m-44 scope

    An old, light-weight sporter Remington 581 will hold less than 1" at 50 yard-line with a scope.

    This should give you the 2 notions...
    1.) These shooters I mention are all exceptional to very good rifles - as are your CZ guns.
    2.) Find good ammo that your guns like, get a bunch of it, and stick with it. It's frustrating to dial in an unwanted selection for the fact that it's all the stuff you find on some shelf when you are out of the good stuff.

    I can speak highly of the CZ 452. I use one in a .17HMR with American stock. Had it for several years now from when these first came out and use it all the time. Matter of fact, got it from Ken at Wild West.

  16. #16

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    My gizzied up 10/22 really likes the Wolf Match Target stuff as well. It sure is greasy though!

  17. #17

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    My 77/22LR loves CCI-Green Tag & Eley EPS. Other accurate ammo I have heard about are Super X power point HP. And the Wolf ammo.

    I like the flat point (eps) of they Eley for hunting but the burnt powder smells strange. The CCI and Win smells well like gun smoke should.

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    Just got back from the range where I tried that Peters ammo that SW had on special. I only fired one 5 shot group at 50yds. Just over 1/2" using a 1919 Savage. The 90year old gun still works pretty good and the ammo isn't bad either especially at $1.40 a box.

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    Default go to

    There is a great web forum called Rimfire Central.
    No politics or b.s.
    Nothing but technical discussions about anything and everything 22 rimfire.
    Bill

  20. #20

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    Picked up a CZ 452 off a fella on the board here last year. Turned out so nice I did a trigger job on it and put a 4x Nikon monarch on it.
    The thing shoots really great. I shoot 9mm cases at 50 yds. with the cheapo blue box stuff. Picked up some match Elie ammo for it but have not tried it yet so am interested in other thoughts on good ammo.
    The trigger job really helps.

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