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Thread: Reduced loads

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    Member AKdutch's Avatar
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    Default Reduced loads

    My question is: How is the starting point of powder in a caliber determined. My Barnes reloading manual says to start at 20 grns of H110 and a max load of 21 grns for a 225gr XPB bullet. How would I determine how low I could go and still get decent accuracy. Is there any danger with going too low and having excessive pressure behind the bullet? Please enlighten me. John

    BTW, I'm trying to load these for my daughter. I've already loaded my Cast Performance 300gr rounds.

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    Did you find her a rifle?

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    John,

    You would do better to use a different (faster burning) powder. You didn't mention caliber but 20 grains of H110 with a 225 grain in any big bore (41,44,45) is still a hefty load and would be close to max. You could use any of a number of powders and get velocity down to below 1000 fps and have a good mild training load.

    Do you have any Unique, Blue Dot, Vihta N350, SR4756?

    BY reducing the charge of H110 below the starting load would cause very erratic ignition. It isn't that it would cause excess pressure. The erratic ignition could be so sever as to cause squib loads that could stick in the barrel or between barrel and cylinder. This could be hazardous. Reducing loads of W-296 or H110 below recommended starting levels is a bad practice.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    TYBSP,
    I decided to go with the Ruger compact in 7mm-08. They don't have one right now, but are goin to call me when one gets in. I just thought we could go shoot some out of my Win 94 .44 mag while waiting.

    Murphy,
    The Barnes book is really weak on powder types. I have used Unique powder quite abit for my 38, but not 44. Do you have any suggestions to a starting point with Unique powder for a .44 mag 225gr XPB barnes bullet? Thanks for the info. John

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    Default Barnes

    I agree the Barnes manual is pretty weak for .44 Rem Mag powder selection. I think they dont list faster burning powders, because their pistol bullets are meant to be driven at near top velocity to get good expansion/performance on game. They are quite pricey too. I would spend the $ on some cast or jacketed 200 grain bullets, and load w/unique. 11.0 grains of unique and a speer 200 jhp is a good mild load in my .44's. If you search the archives, I had asked some reduced load questions on the .44 mag and got some good info. A friend loaded some of the 225 XPB w/ 19.0-19.5 grains of H110 under a CCI 350 (barnes manual uses standard primer, hence the lower charge). I personally didnt shoot them, but they seemed nasty in the blast/recoil department. Noticably more than a 300 grain Sierra load.

    -BTW, the last can of unique I bought was labeled "now cleaner burning", and it was very clean.

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    Default Thanks

    I agree with you on the lighter bullets, but just happened to have a box of the 225's on the shelf. Not sure what I'm gonna do with them since I hunt with the 300 LBT bullets. Maybe I'll just go buy some speers and a box of Universal. If I remember right it burns alot cleaner than Unique. I may be backwards though.

  7. #7

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    This weekend load I used two different loads for my 44 mag in two different flavors. Smith 329PD and Taurus 44 mag.

    Speer JHP 240gr
    9.2 gr & 10.3 Unique
    Rem 2 1/2 primer

    These loads, according to my manual are in and around the 1000fps range. While at the range I torched off almost all forty rounds in my 329PD scandium and then wished I loaded more, very enjoyable to shoot. The recoil even in the light 329 was easily managed. It felt like a 44 special load. The recoil in my Taurus was hardly even noticed.

    I bought the lil paper bounded book at sportsmans called the complete reloading manual for 44 mag. For $8 I think I got my monies worth.

  8. #8

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    I've always suspected that there aren't more published loads for fast powders in 44 mag simply because there's also the 44 special floating around. Same as the reason you don't have as many fast powder loads published for the 357 mag when there's also the 38 special. It would be the same for the 41 mag if there was a 41 special.

    I have lots of 44 special brass, so I reserve my 44 mag cases for loads hotter than I can manage with standard pressures in the 44 special. The up side is that it's really easy to keep track of my loads that way. The down side is ...... Well, I guess there isn't a down side.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Paticularly with H-110, guns have been blown up with reduced loads. I have yet to read a conclusive study on why, but H-110 does have a heavy detterent coating, and needs to get a good head of steam to start burning. Likely what happens is the primer and initial combustion of the powder is enough to get the bullet engraved into the lands of the rifling, then the bullet stops, then the pressure builds up and the gun goes kablooey.

    H-110 isn't a bad powder, it is superb for full patch heavy bullet loads in magnum revolvers, but that is the only use it is good for in magnum revolvers.

    For mild loads I've found Unique to be an outstanding powder. With a nominal 240-250 gr bullet in the 44 mag, 7 gr produces ~700 fps, and 10 gr produces ~1000 fps. Work up the most accurate load in your gun.

    Brian Pierce had an article not that long ago in handloader about mild and midrange loads in the 44 mag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    Paticularly with H-110, guns have been blown up with reduced loads. I have yet to read a conclusive study on why, but H-110 does have a heavy detterent coating, and needs to get a good head of steam to start burning. Likely what happens is the primer and initial combustion of the powder is enough to get the bullet engraved into the lands of the rifling, then the bullet stops, then the pressure builds up and the gun goes kablooey.
    Paul,

    I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that H110 can destroy a gun. There is not any evidence from any bullet, powder or primer company that this powder will produce a detonation and destroy a gun. None, zero, natta. This powder is used by the ton by all those companies in development of their data and none of them exerienced any such problem. Other than gossip and uninformed self proclaimed experts, there is nothing that would support the idea that H-110 can detonate. Your scenario you describe wouldn't work in a revolver, anyway. Some have applied the slow powder detonation in a rifle to the slow powder in a revolver but there is nothing to support that theory.

    I'm not an advocate of using this powder for reduced loads or even using it at all but I don't think it is dangerous in the way you describe.

    I will agree it is a poor choice for reduced loads in anything and personally I have found several better powders for full power power loads, but it does have it's niche.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default

    Wow, thats a nasty story about H110. I use it fairly often when loading 454 casull and 500 S&W Mag. and have never had a problem. I will say that at higher loads the muzzel flash is very substantial but that is the only outstanding issue Ive seen with it. For lighter loads, if you like hodgden, LilGun and perhaps Titegroup have been very good to me.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Murphy,

    I haven't experienced that myself, but did want to put the caveat out there that H-110 should not be reduced lower than published data. Whether or not the scenerio I presented is possible or not is up for discussion, and we'd likely have to do alot of testing to see whether it could happen or not. Revolvers most certainly can be blown up by excessive pressure.

    But let's hearse go and see what Hodgdon has to say about H-110:
    http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/index.php

    "Reduce H110 Loads 3% and work up from there. H110 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%."

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    Thumbs up

    Paul,

    Certainly. We agree on that. Don't reduce loads with H110/W296 powder.

    I'm just saying that there is no support for the theory of detonation in a revolver with light loads of this powder. There is however ample reason not to reduce loads below the recommended starting loads, so either way, don't reduce. This powder does have it's place and that is full power loads with heavy bullets and heavy crimp...only. That would be my place for it.

    Here's what I said about it originally, pasted, from this question.

    BY reducing the charge of H110 below the starting load would cause very erratic ignition. It isn't that it would cause excess pressure. The erratic ignition could be so sever as to cause squib loads that could stick in the barrel or between barrel and cylinder. This could be hazardous. Reducing loads of W-296 or H110 below recommended starting levels is a bad practice.

    I don't think we disagree on the use of this powder, do we?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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