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Thread: My "new" (old) M1 Garand

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    Default My "new" (old) M1 Garand

    I recently purchased an M1 from a gentleman who had two of these advertised on the forum. His asking price was $525. I am certain it was a smoking deal, though I don't know much about Garands. This one is an HR which I assume is for Harrington and Richardson. The serial numbers on the parts are not matching, but all parts are HR. The barrel is stamped 1955 so I am assuming it was a Korean War arsenal refit. The bore is bright with very strong rifling. It does not appear to have been fired since it was refurbished. I jumped at the chance to own this piece of history. I spent many evenings talking to my grandfather about his experiances in WWII and Korea where he carried one of these in combat. I don't know if anyone is particularly knowledgeable about them but if someone would like to share anything they know about these rifles I'd love to learn. I know that they are some of the most robust battle rifles of all time, and that's about it.
    I would also like to know if shooting it will cause it to depreciate in value or collectability.

    Thanks in advance!
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    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    Appears to be a nice H&R. The "serial " numbers you are seeing are actually drawing numbers for each part and will not "match. Parts are not generally serial numbered on U.S. Military firearms. The H&R guns are all Korean War vintage. Only the earlier Springfields and Winchesters are WW2. The International Harvesters are Korean War as well, with the high number Springfields. Go shoot it, you won't hurt the value as long as you take care of it and keep it clean. Don't "modify" or cut on anything, and run good ammo through it. They are a delight to shoot. I have 6 M-1's and they all run well with good ammo.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Thanks for the info Gunbugs. Like I said, I am a newbie as far as Garands go. Your input is much appreciated. Now I just have to go out and find some enblock clips! I already have some test loads worked up. I've heard that you can wring superb accuracy out of these rifles. I'm excited to see how she shoots!

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    Shoot it and enjoy but watch out, they bite! Hold the bolt well with the back of your hand as you use the thumb of the same hand to lock down the clip or you will get M1 Thumb. Stick with ammo in the 165g range and not modern supped up velocities (stuff close to ball, 27-2800fps) too protect your op-rod from damage. In loading you want to stick close to the burn rate of the 4895 ball powder, slower powders will give more speed but are hard on the op-rod.

    There is much info on the web but here is the best place to start, the basics.
    http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/m1.htm
    Andy
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    How big where the bullets they used in WWII?
    Tim

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    M-2 ball is/was 150 grain. M-72 match is 173 grain.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    I worked up some test loads with 4895 and 180 grain partitions. I don't plan on going heavier than 180. I happen to have a 45 pound bag of IMI 147 grain FMJ's that are brand new not pulls. I'll have to mess around with those too. I would imagine that 168 grain nosler custom competitions should shoot great too.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Does anyone know where I can find the enblock clips locally?
    Also if anyone else has a Garand, it might be fun to get together at birchwood sometime.

    Again, thanks for the responses! I can't wait to get out and shoot it. It has been staring at me pleading for some action!

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    I think you got a good deal. $525 is a great price, worth every penny. There are some guys who want to charge +$1,000.00 for a basic field grade M1. I would be very careful shooting Nosler partitions through your gun - you don't want a high pressure load with a bullet like the partition. Damage to the op rod is a real concern. Keep your loads in the middle to just below the middle. IMR/H4895 is a great powder for the Garand, as is IMR4064.

    Make sure to visit http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7 for lots of good info. Look around their website and you'll learn a lot.

    Garands are great! The Ammo Dump in Anchorage may have some enbloc clips, possibly some Greek ammo loaded in the clips.

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    Thanks for the info Yankee. The loads worked up with the partitions are within the same spectrum as middle weight loads I'd use in my .308. I have not checked to compare pressure of 30-06 VS .308, but I think I should be safe. I could always pull the bullets and use them for a different gun if someone has a suggestion for a nice low pressure load that could be used for putting down deer sized critters in the Garand. I am going to try to get a deer and maybe a couple ferel pigs with it this fall.

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    You're probably good with your loads if you are keeping them in mid-range of the published data. My caution on the Partitions comes from my experience with my Ruger 30-06. I stupidly used my go-to load of IMR4064 that I had used for Nosler Ballistic Tips in my rifle and the primers were flattened big time (bad pressure signs). I checked the Nosler on line loading info and it turned out my load was at the max. The structure of the bullet with the web going through the middle of the bullet apparently has the effect of increasing pressure when compared to conventionally made bullets.

    Hornady Interlocks, Nosler Accubonds, Sierra Gamekings, Remington Core-locs would all be perfect bullets for the Garand. I have taken whitetails with the old Nosler Ballistic tips and Sierra Gamekings (150 and 165 grain bullets).

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    Thanks again for the info Yankee. I think that I'll pull the partitions and start over with corelokts. They are still effective on deer sized game, and more than effective on southeastern hogs.

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    A grand old Garand.....I think there is a lot of information and mis-information about the ammo that is suitable for the M1 Garand. I can't say I have all the answers but I do have some experience with the rifle and with different ammo, mil-spec, commercial and a variety of hand loads. It has been said that the gas system requires a certain range of pressures at the gas port down at the muzzle end of the barrel. This is true. I have found conflicting information over the years about what the port pressure is supposed to be so I'll not claim to know any more. It has been proven safe and reliable to feed this rifle with hand loads with bullets of 150 grains to about 180 grains, when loaded with powders in what are known as the mid burning rate range. Actually powders that are optimum for the 308 Winchester are what we are after here. I have used 4895, (the original), IMR 4895, H4895 as well as many others in this burn rate. IMR 4064, RL-15, RL-12, N135, N140, AA 2495, AA 2520, Varget have all been used to make good safe functional loads for the M1 Garand, 30, Gov't 1906, cartridge. The most recent edition of the Hornady loading manual gives some special Garand loads using most of these powders, and others, with 150, 155, 168 and 178 grain bullets.

    I have loaded thousands of rounds of 168 grain Sierra MK bullets over 46.5 grains of H4895 and run them through the various Garand rifles I've owned and have loaded this ammo for many other Garand shooters and no one ever offered to wrap a bent operating rod around my head. This load is approximately 50,000 psi and produces about 2700 fps at the muzzle of the M1 rifle.

    The burning rate of the propellant and the pressure curve signature, The expansion ratio of the cartridge/barrel and the barrel dwell time all effect the port pressure for this rifle. This gas system is just a hole in the barrel of a certain diameter and a certain distance from the chamber. Unlike modern gas systems that use a piston that moves and closes the port, using only a gas pulse to operate the action, this Garand gas system just vents gas from behind the bullet after it travels through about 22.5 inches of barrel. What pressure is left in the barrel at this point hits full force (reduce by the port diameter) and applied to the approximately .5" diameter piston end of the operating rod.....all one piece. For this reason, we must use the right powder and peak pressure load to stay in the fun operating range of the rifle.

    I have heard that the Federal American eagle, 150 ammo is too hot for the Garand. I have not found that to be true, I've shot a lot of it without problems. Also Fiocchi makes some good Garand ammo. I bought a case of it a couple years back and it has been run through several rifles without a problem. These loads are made to duplicate the performance of the M2 ball. Both loads chronograph about right for the cartridge/rifle combo, though that doesn't tell us about port pressure. Loads made with slower powder, even at lower peak chamber pressures, will be higher at the port and can damage the rifle. I would not use commercial ammo unless it is made with the Garand in mind. Premium hunting ammo is loaded to get peak performance from the 30-06 cartridge and is most likely loaded with slower burning powders, which optimize the '06 for bolt guns, not M1 use.

    All in all........this...." best ****ed battle implement ever devised" is one helluva fine rifle. I would prefer the IH or HR, Korean vintage rifles, for shooters but my recent Winchester of 1940 is a lovely rifle, though it does show battle scars and carries with it history that saved a nation and the lives of many soldiers. I love the guns and the history behind them, every body should own and shoot one often. My uncle carried an M1 rifle on Normandy beach.......and half way across France where he was severely wounded and sent home. He often spoke of the M1 rifle with high regard. He was a country boy from eastern Oklahoma and learn to shoot well at an early age. His marksmanship and the M1 saved his country boy ass many times in the 4 years of war and he told me he was thankful he had a good rifle. I believe the American spirit and this rifle won WWII. Enjoy your M1 Garand rifle.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    A grand old Garand.....

    All in all........this...." best ****ed battle implement ever devised" is one helluva fine rifle. I would prefer the IH or HR, Korean vintage rifles, for shooters but my recent Winchester of 1940 is a lovely rifle, though it does show battle scars and carries with it history that saved a nation and the lives of many soldiers. I love the guns and the history behind them, every body should own and shoot one often. My uncle carried an M1 rifle on Normandy beach.......and half way across France where he was severely wounded and sent home. He often spoke of the M1 rifle with high regard. He was a country boy from eastern Oklahoma and learn to shoot well at an early age. His marksmanship and the M1 saved his country boy ass many times in the 4 years of war and he told me he was thankful he had a good rifle. I believe the American spirit and this rifle won WWII. Enjoy your M1 Garand rifle.
    Well Shoot, I thought, that I've always wanted one before,..... but after reading this,
    I think, differently now,
    "I Have Just Got to Own, and Shoot One Often," myself now, like ASAP

    Congrats sthrcave, that rifle looks like she could torture you with the "are ya gonna shoot me?" look
    post more when you get back from the range

    Good Writing, good thread, I'm in the market,.....
    for some reason, I'm surprised they sell for as little as they do,
    as I agree, they are a history piece of with none to compare.

    ps thanks for all the loading info, that'll come in handy, and I hope real soon
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    All I can add to Murphy’s view of the Garand is there is just nothing like rocking out eight bangs and hear the “CHING” of the clip ejecting! Or slowly dialing in the dope to put lead on paper at 1000 yards with a Grand and the satisfaction when you actually hit that little thing way out there! They are like shaking hands with the Greatest Generation every time you hold one. Guess you can tell I love them too.
    Andy
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  15. #15

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    Enjoy your garand
    CMP has ball ammo you can buy direct, bayonets, slings, web belts etc check it out

    Ammo used
    US M1 ball is the 173 gr
    M2 the 152 gr
    Black tip AP 165 gr, and orange tip tracers; APIT, blue and orange box, blanks
    rifle also used for grenade launching

    M72 match also used in the Garand

    Later, 1960's, on the Navy rebarrelled and used m80 ball, A648 in 7.62 Nato, M118 M852


    Hornady makes Garand loads

    AK Rifle club sponsors matches to include the Garand Match, the vintage Rifle match, Service Rifle matches and more at both Birchwood and fort rich, where you can use your M1. Come shoot!

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    Not much to add to the impressive discussion so far. If you're going to shoot matches, consider getting a S.L.E.D. (single round loading enhancement device) and maybe a 2-round clip. I made my first SLED with a hack saw taken to a regular clip and it worked better than most of the ones I've made with fancier equipment. If you shoot matches left handed, these two items make life much easier!

    I have loaded some rounds of 180 in both Hor. and Nos. Part. for one of my Garands. No problems so far. I used IMR-4895 for those loads. Most of my loadings are for 150 and 168 bullets.

    If you can find it, AMERICAN RIFLEMAN had a great article on loading for the M1 in March 1986. Loadings up to 200 gr Sierra. Powers used were IMR-3031, IMR-4895, IMR-4064, Win.-748, IMR-4320, and H-4895.

    Good luck. Have fun.

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    Thanks again everyone. This post has reinforced the warm and fuzzy feeling I got when I bought this rifle. I will make every attempt at keeping this alive by posting info about what works and doesn't for various loads, and also pictures of targets. More to come as soon as my work schedule calms down and I can get back on the reloading bench and out to the rage.
    In the mean time, feel free to post about your Garand experiances or pictures of your Garands etc. I; like many readers am enjoying learning as much as I can about this old warhorse.

    Thanks again.

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    Great thread, and awsome info....now I need one too...;-)

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    Murphy: rep point sent your way. Thanks

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    stgrcave: if you can't find the clips, send me a PM and I'll ship you a couple to get you started for the cost of shipping: $5.20

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