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Thread: King Leaders....?

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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default King Leaders....?

    Question about leaders for King trolling?
    First off, I am a novice and just trying to be prepared when we head to Homer in late May.
    Wondering what to use for leaders from the flasher?

    I was going to use some 30# spiderwire, but was advised to use mono, also was told not to use to a real heavy mono as it can affect the flasher............?

    What do you guys say.............? Thanks......!
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    I use #40-#50 mono for leaders, in lengths from 30"-48". That is a pretty common practice amongst the guys i fish with.
    Some folks will use an additional 20" or so of #100 when using a bechold (sp?) flasher, as they can sometimes tangle in the leader when playing a fish. I have never bothered and can't recall any fish that that's cost me.
    All leader variations will affect the action of the flasher, but who is to say that you won't discover the hot combo while you are experimenting with your set-up?
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    I like to use 30# maxima mono for all my king leaders, when sport fishing.

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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, it was also recommended to use a 100 foot mono "topshot", I have some type of braided line for the main line.........?
    Whats yer thoughts for this "Topshot"..........?
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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I like to use a mono topshot, but nothing like 100', more like 5-10'. With a 100' topshot, you pretty much loose all the advantage of braid, i.e. the sensitivity due to its lack of stretch. But having some mono at the terminal end for abrasion resistance and to provide some stretch (shock absorbtion) is a good thing, so stick with mono for the leader. Since you'll already have some mono in the leader, I can't see much of an advantage of the topshot. But, if you'll also be using the rod for jigging and bottom fishing, put on a small top shot.
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    A big king caught on something rigged behind a flasher can pull awful hard on the leader - the flasher makes a lot of drag when towed fast through water. I'd go 40#+ mono for leader when using a flasher.

    No flasher - 20#-30# mono.

    Consider heavier leader still for hoochies - helps direct action from the flasher into the hoochie. I use 50# and 60# for hoochie leaders.

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    Thanks all, I sure hope I get a big King..........looking forward to that.
    100' topshot seemed excessive in my mind as well, but understand that some give (stretch) is a plus so will plan to pick up some mono.
    So thinking I will tie the mono to the braid and swivel/ snap on the end of the mono......any recommendations there, such as size or brand?
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    just don't get the cheap ones....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akgramps View Post
    Thanks all, I sure hope I get a big King..........looking forward to that.
    100' topshot seemed excessive in my mind as well, but understand that some give (stretch) is a plus so will plan to pick up some mono.
    So thinking I will tie the mono to the braid and swivel/ snap on the end of the mono......any recommendations there, such as size or brand?
    Sampo 75# or 100# ball bearing snap swivels. Even heavier is ok too.

    I use a 20' mono topshot - long enough so the mono goes into the downrigger clip. I use 30# spectra and 20# mono.

    Big_E

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    Member Cliffhanger's Avatar
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    I use corkscrew swivel as I'm concerned about the snap swivel pulling loose.

    I use 40# Ande mono on my Fin-Nor reels. I don't like braid when fishing for salmon off the back of the boat (although I have braid on my Avet for stream fishing - more control of the fish from the bank). I know the mono gives more shock-absorbing protection, especially for clients who have hooked a king for the first time (and think they need to set the hook Nanji-style). I use a 42 inch 30# leader (I can't remember the brand) for kings. 36 inch for silvers...

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    [QUOTE=270ti;932812]I like to use 30# maxima mono for all my king leaders, when sport fishing.[/QUOTE
    i use 30# ultragreen maxima and 30# seaguar with 4/0 owner ssw cutting points, but i have just found that gama is now making the big river hooks in a smaller size not a big fan of the matzuo hooks, straightend a couple of them on fish, the gamas are really nice, granted havent hooked anything with them yet but been puttin in the hours the last couple days

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    30lb fluorocarbon 2 1/2 the lenght of the flasher, I like to use hoods on my Herring. Use 25lb or 30lb Maxima for your main line. Good luck!

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    Thanks guys, I picked up some mono today & now practicing up on some knots, tied a "Albright" knot for connecting the mono to the braid.
    It ends up with both a loop and a tag end on the braid side...........is this normal?
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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  14. #14

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    Yup. Clip them both. Actually I don't like Albrights, and instead I use back-to-back nail knots, something you do for big game leaders when fly fishing. Not enough improvement to make you learn how to tie it, but less tendency to slip. Albrights will do that if they're not tied perfectly.

    Long as you're tying your own leaders, here's what I do: I make all of mine 6' long so I can use them straight for trolling with no flasher or for mooching. No big sweat to cut them shorter for use behind a flasher. I also vary the weight of my leaders for the size of the herring. Right now we're trolling with 8- to 10-inch "choaker" herring, and leaders lighter than 50# are simply too limp. I'm actually using 80# right now. Later on in the summer I drop down to 30# when using firecrackers.

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    The big thing is to figure out what fishes well out of your boat. When I'm fishing in a group of boats, I'm usually hi-lining when I'm fishing 30# maxima, 4/0 gamakatsus, an unbaited hoochie, and a 11" flasher. 34" leader. I like the 30# leader because I can tie good leaders with the 4/0 hooks. It works for me and the speed I troll, and I have a ton of confidence when I've got that down fishing. I'm sure a bunch of other baits/line/hooks work just fine though. The key is being efficient in keeping whatever you are using in front of the kings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Yup. Clip them both. Actually I don't like Albrights, and instead I use back-to-back nail knots, something you do for big game leaders when fly fishing. Not enough improvement to make you learn how to tie it, but less tendency to slip. Albrights will do that if they're not tied perfectly.

    Long as you're tying your own leaders, here's what I do: I make all of mine 6' long so I can use them straight for trolling with no flasher or for mooching. No big sweat to cut them shorter for use behind a flasher. I also vary the weight of my leaders for the size of the herring. Right now we're trolling with 8- to 10-inch "choaker" herring, and leaders lighter than 50# are simply too limp. I'm actually using 80# right now. Later on in the summer I drop down to 30# when using firecrackers.
    Geez, it appears I still have a lot to learn..LOL.............I simply have to quit buying "Stuff" & go fishing..........
    we will be staying on MacDonald spit, I think we can get some troll herring at the fuel dock in Seldovia, I have picked up a selection of spoons, plugs, flies..................will see how that goes. But sounds like herring is the way to go...............?

    Also rethinking theis "mono topshot", I thought the long topshot was so your release on the downrigger is gripping the mono instaed of the braid................? will the release work ok on the braid? (using cannon adjustables).
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akgramps View Post
    Geez, it appears I still have a lot to learn..LOL.............I simply have to quit buying "Stuff" & go fishing..........
    we will be staying on MacDonald spit, I think we can get some troll herring at the fuel dock in Seldovia, I have picked up a selection of spoons, plugs, flies..................will see how that goes. But sounds like herring is the way to go...............?

    Also rethinking theis "mono topshot", I thought the long topshot was so your release on the downrigger is gripping the mono instaed of the braid................? will the release work ok on the braid? (using cannon adjustables).
    Every day is different, so yeah. It's time to go fishing. We vary the color of flasher and lures with the weather and the depth we're fishing. For example, in less than 60 feet we have the best luck with black and white on overcast days, especially with chop on the water. Sunny days in the same water, we go with blue and white or blue and silver. Another rule of thumb, we have the best luck with small herring when we troll them really slow, but with the choakers we go a lot faster, more like we're trolling for silvers. If one combo doesn't work, move on to something else.

    I don't like braid in conventional releases, but haven't really had any problems with it either. we prefer THESE releases rather than the usual stuff you see from Canon and Scotty. Braid or mono is no concern whatsoever with them. We used them for years in bluewater trolling in the tropics, and they're still more or less standard down there today. Their tension is completely and easily adjustable and they're completely reliable.

    We make up rigs for them with 300-pound mono, a swivel at the top to connect to the downrigger wire and a ball snap at the bottom for your downrigger ball. We make them long enough so the ball is still in the water when the dowrigger tops out, then put on a crimp so the clip is at a convenient height for attaching the line. I've never seen anything more convenient, and having the ball in the water sure eliminates swing and slamming the hull on rough days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    we prefer THESE releases rather than the usual stuff you see from Canon and Scotty. Braid or mono is no concern whatsoever with them. We used them for years in bluewater trolling in the tropics, and they're still more or less standard down there today. Their tension is completely and easily adjustable and they're completely reliable.

    We make up rigs for them with 300-pound mono, a swivel at the top to connect to the downrigger wire and a ball snap at the bottom for your downrigger ball. We make them long enough so the ball is still in the water when the dowrigger tops out, then put on a crimp so the clip is at a convenient height for attaching the line. I've never seen anything more convenient, and having the ball in the water sure eliminates swing and slamming the hull on rough days.
    They look interesting, I havent seen them before, it appears as if you can just string the downrigger cable directly through the release?
    There must be something that I am not getting...........

    Whats the reason for rerigging with Mono? I can sure see the advantage of leaving the weight in the water..
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akgramps View Post
    They look interesting, I havent seen them before, it appears as if you can just string the downrigger cable directly through the release?
    There must be something that I am not getting...........

    Whats the reason for rerigging with Mono? I can sure see the advantage of leaving the weight in the water..
    I did a better job of searching, and THIS is the exact model of release we use. Sorry for the confusion.

    The first one I listed is a little more complicated than the one's we use, what with the extra release thingamabob. It's cheaper to boot.

    I suppose you could run a downrigger wire through the hole in the back, but then you would need to stop it from sliding. That's why we use the heavy mono- Just slide on a crimp onto the mono, then slide the mono through the hole running through the back of the release and slide on another crimp and continue on. We use additional crimps to put the ball snap on the bottom and a barrel swivel on top. Length is measured from the tip of your outrigger to below the water line, so when the downrigger finishes it's retrieve the ball will still be in the water. We set the release on the mono by squeezing those first two crimps above and below it, wherever we want the release to sit on the mono. I generally like it about "crank-high" on the downrigger for ease of grabbing and clipping on your line.

    If you didn't want to make up the mono and prefered to put the release between the ball and wire, you could use THIS model instead.

    Basically here's how it works. That wire thingy you see is connected at the top and pivots there. That round silver thing you can just make out at the bottom is a tension adjustment nob. You swing the clip down into a set of jaws to the right of that nob and snap it into place, then adjust the tension on it hard enough to keep the wire thingy from popping back out with the drag of your flasher or whatever.

    Attaching the line to it is easy as pie, and that's why we like them so much, and don't have to worry about braid. You just let out as much line as you want behind the downrigger wire, grab the line and spin your hand 8-10 times to twist it and form a loop. Slip the loop over the end of the wire thingy, then snap it into place. There's enough tension and friction in those twists to keep the line from sliding, yet it pops free of the wire thingy instantly when it is snapped open by a strike.

    I've written lots more than I intended, a sure sign that I might have confused my description rather than making things clearer. You'll learn to love these things with multiple downriggers on a boat because there is absolutely no messing around. Just let your line back, grab it and put the twists in, and snap it in place. Most guys I know who don't like them have actually never tried them, or else never used them enough to get them figured out. Pretty easy, so I always wonder at the critics. Doesn't make me want to use anything else on my boat!

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    Default Trolling Kings

    I also question trolling tactics off of Homer and Whisky Gulch. As a Silver salmon expert in my mind I have read many articals about how different trolling Kings can be. My question is how do I troll in what amount s to 3-4knot current in Cook Inlet? I will be using down riggers as well as divers. I put flashers on the downrigger ball which keeps the the line free of tangle. The divers I use are adjustable depth style. I will be trolling 4 lines, two on riggers and two on divers. At what speed I guess is the question. Do I criss cross the current or zig zag? I see that most experts say troll at 1-2mph and closer to 1 which is tough in a 3-4knot current.
    Any suggestions?
    June is my target date!
    Thanks

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