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Thread: PART II Sheep Wars in Alaska written by an Alaskan Resident

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    Default PART II Sheep Wars in Alaska written by an Alaskan Resident

    Here is the link to the second part of "Sheep Wars" written by Alaskan Resident, Tyler Freel from North Pole AK. A great read with a few solutions brought up by the author.

    http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/liv...pid=enews42111

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Tyler needs a little education on Const. law and the Alaskan laws that drive how wildlife is managed here.
    I am surprised that OL is letting this article go thru. Tyler obviously wants to eliminate as much competition for him as possible. Since most OL readers are NOT Alaska res. most will stand to lose opportunity to hunt sheep in Alaska if Tylers ideas come to be realized.
    But hey, since I'm an Alaskan resident............I must deserve my own private little sheep hunting spot. Would also like a Moose, bear, bou and Musk Ox spot. Is there anything in the Obama recovery plan for displaced Alaska hunters??
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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    Member SkinnyD's Avatar
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    I think interstate commerce laws prohibit residency requirements. That would be like requiring a truck driver to be a resident of the state to which he was making a delivery.

    He started off so good... he pointed out that there is a real chance of confrontation in the mountains when big-money operations butt heads with the competition. Then he went on to blabbity-blab about quality trophies and herd sizes and interstate commerce laws and everything under the sun - except his original point. Sure, the quality of ram would possibly improve if guide-only and resident-only areas were established, but possibly not as well. And honestly, who cares one way or the other? If you are hunting for the right reasons, a barely legal ram is just as good anyway. But, by establishing areas where guides cannot go, you eliminate the chance of some yahoo killing another hunter over a ram and a stack of money.
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


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    Well, as I just told Tyler in a comment on the blog, I was sure surprised he didn't recommend capping nonres sheep allocations as other states do, along with making it draw only.

    And yeah, like Mike said, banning nonres guides is a complete nonstarter and I don't know why so many keep advocating for something that is clearly illegal. We can raise their guide license fees though.

    And either way, whether it is the GCP or these other ideas that finally get implemented, nonres sheep hunting and nonres sheep harvests are set to get curtailed pretty good. Just a matter of when, I'd prefer sooner rather than later.

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    A guide is not a hunter. A guide is a professionally licensed provider of guiding services. A guide must have experience, pass peer review and pass a test to become licensed. Just like other professions such as a doctor, dentist, hairstylist, engineer, surveyor, etc... It is against federal law to prohibit someone from being licensed in another state than which they reside. States have an agreement under federal law to recognize driver's licenses. That isn't extended to hunting licenses or concealed carry permits because those licenses are not a professional license to conduct busines. I am quite surprised that the State employee source and the author do not understand this. In fact, it's that federal law the allows the state to require a non-resident guide to have another registered guide along when hunting species requiring a guide.

    Yep, there are a few guides out there that really screw things up. However, there are also a bunch that are ethical business people and ethical hunters. To require a guy that plies his trade in guiding hunters to only be a resident of the state he guides in is akin to telling a truck driver that he needs to stay in his own state to make a living. Quite a few guides I know, that are Alaskan residents, guide in other states. It's what it takes so that these guys can make a living, feed their kids, pay for health care, and send their kids to college.

    Do we need an overhaul in certain areas? You bet. Making guides be required to be residents is a non=starter, though.
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    You could tie continued licensing to clients who bring in sub-legal sheep (i.e. your client brings in a sub-legal sheep he got on your hunt, you get a big fine or suspension, ect...). Not sure how you could prove things one way or another, but that would be one way to weed out inexperienced / aggressive guides...my idea is certainly not an complete solution, but I figured I'd toss that out there....

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    I've got no issue to holding any profession to a higher standard when current standards are suspected to be insufficient. How's that for politically correct I agree, if you are the professional and you say "take 'em" you are somewhat responsible. I know a couple assistant guides and we've discussed this quite often. They consider taking a sub-legal sheep (or moose) as one of the lowest things you can be part of as a guide. They say that guiding sheep has become so stressful to them trying to make sure a sheep is legal that they no longer really enjoy guiding for them. They also site the inconsistancy of judging sheep when they are being sealed as another source of heatburn, and one that even non-guided hunters can relate to.
    Bears, moose (anyone can count to three or four), caribou and goats are all easy compared to sheep.
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    funny thing is, there is a plethora of regulations, that if adhered to and enforced, would prevent many of the issues being discussed.
    it is illegal to interfere in a legal hunt. (harassment, dummy camps would fall under this)
    it is illegal to spot game from the air, or use such knowledge to take game.
    it is illegal to assist in the taking of an illegal (undersize) game animal.

    and the big kicker here....

    as a guide ( or assistant, or transporter) it is illegal to NOT REPORT ANY violation of the fish and game regulations of which you are aware.

    there you go, all problems solved, just requires compliance and enforcement of existing laws.

    (maybe this belongs on the daily joke thread)
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    Dave- I totally agree. Unfortunately proving any of those things are tough to prove other than the undersized animal thing.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    it is illegal to spot game from the air, or use such knowledge to take game.
    Illegal, or unethical? Serious question here. My understanding is that it's listed in the guide ethics code, but is not illegal for hunters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Illegal, or unethical? Serious question here. My understanding is that it's listed in the guide ethics code, but is not illegal for hunters.
    within a certain time frame that wuld be "same-day airborne", and illegal. but yes, iin a greater sense it is an ethics question.
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    I believe that hunters can be excluded based on residency, but guides can't. http://www.nodc.us/gametags.htm might give more background. Anyone going bear hunting this weekend?

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    within a certain time frame that wuld be "same-day airborne", and illegal. but yes, iin a greater sense it is an ethics question.
    If you are that stuck on ethics, hiring a guide should just tear your heart out. I'm fairly sure they fly around in planes to figure out where the sheep are. Somebody said on the other thread that hiring a guide was the best way to assure that a quality trophy was taken in a legal and ethical manner, and that is probably true since they spend the most time looking at the sheep. However, it now comes to light that perhaps it is a breach of ethics to shoot a sheep that was spotted from the air. I think more and more I equate a guide to a lawyer, car salesman, or Democrat... we all can point out an example of a good one, but mostly they just seem sleazy.
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


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    You can't legislate "ethics", only stare it down in the mirror. F&G is ultimately going to have to come to grips with their most important goal.
    In my view it is to maintain the health and viability of the sheep population, not the mental health of us who want to hunt them every year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post

    and the big kicker here....

    as a guide ( or assistant, or transporter) it is illegal to NOT REPORT ANY violation of the fish and game regulations of which you are aware.

    there you go, all problems solved, just requires compliance and enforcement of existing laws.
    This guide could claim their interpretation of age, ect made them unaware of something being illegal...make it black and white; illegal ram = penalty for guide.

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    Dr. No, that seems like a reasonable solution. Illegal sheep equals a penalty for the guide. Repeat offenders get a penalty and the loss of any guide license permanently.

    The other simple solution is to put a 10 per cent cap on all non-residents and make them all draw only.

    The resident requirement is not necessarily a non-starter. In it's current form, yes it is. But you can get around that. eg. You can't get a concealed carry license in most states if you are not a resident. Others require residency to get trade licenses and such and the courts have upheld challenges to States that set drastically higher fees for the licensing of non-residents. So if you want to limit non-resident participation in both guiding and hunting, increase the fees. How many AG's do you think would come from out of state if the license cost 5k for a non-resident?

    If the GCP passes with the concession areas being sold to guides for some pretty steep prices how do you all think that will be for the conflicts between resident hunters and guides. I can hear it now..."I OWN this area and you need to git".

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    within a certain time frame that wuld be "same-day airborne", and illegal. but yes, iin a greater sense it is an ethics question.
    Well - it is truly confusing. Fly around for three or four hours "looking for a place to land" or engaged in "area familiarization" and you're good to go (unless you're one of those pesky, game hog guides . If you are a guide then you obviously "airplane hunting".
    The guiding industry certainly has issues that need to be dealt with, though certainly those issues in many instances are not confined to guiding. To my knowledge no one from the general public has been prevented from testifying or participating in the proceedings of the Commercial Services Board - (with the exception of the actual testing process).
    Joe
    (May even receive a accolades from various co-chairs of "environmental" organizations)

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Like I said in my post, a concealed weapon permit is not a professional license to conduct business in a profession. Which is exactly why we can't get a nation wide concealed carry license. I know of no states that charge more for a professional license depending on residency, nor do I know of any court cases that have upheld charging non-residents a higher fee for a professional license. I am glad this is a protection as a U.S. citizen.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    Like I said in my post, a concealed weapon permit is not a professional license to conduct business in a profession. Which is exactly why we can't get a nation wide concealed carry license. I know of no states that charge more for a professional license depending on residency, nor do I know of any court cases that have upheld charging non-residents a higher fee for a professional license. I am glad this is a protection as a U.S. citizen.
    Alaska does charge more more for non-resident guide and assistant guide licenses.
    Joe

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    Member AlpineEarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    Like I said in my post, a concealed weapon permit is not a professional license to conduct business in a profession. Which is exactly why we can't get a nation wide concealed carry license. I know of no states that charge more for a professional license depending on residency, nor do I know of any court cases that have upheld charging non-residents a higher fee for a professional license. I am glad this is a protection as a U.S. citizen.
    Most states require high fees for professional licensing. Lawyers pay higher fees to practice in states they do not reside in. Some states, like Texas, charge a non-resident fee for every case that non-resident has before the court (section 82.0361). This is a general summary of what many courts have held; The general findings say that if a program is supported by State revenues (state taxes) then the state can charge higher fees to non-residents to offset the burden on residents.

    I'm with you on the protection thing Doug and don't necessarily support eliminating non-resident guides entirely. I would like to see the change that requires the guide to be a resident IF the species they guide for requires a non-resident to hire a guide. (Brown bear, sheep and goat).

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