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Thread: Small (low HP) long tail motors........

  1. #1
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Default Small (low HP) long tail motors........

    Some years ago I spent some time communicating with Mark Cheney of Utah Marsh Motors about building a small, light long tail mud motor for super light and small marsh boats. Specifically home built Hybrids, MoMarsh DPs, or Four Rivers. At that time buying a Beavertail frame kit and then drilling it to fit a small 2hp Honda GX motor was your only option.

    Mark understood what I was asking for, but he didn't seem to want to get serious about the "small" concept. The weed whacker homemade long tails were going crazy all over the intertubes. Even home made long tails with small 2 to 3HP motors were being built. However there was no normal manufactures out there showing that they were taking the weed whacker long tail serious. Crawdad, and Rickshaw were giving it a go, but not really capturing an audience (at least it appeared this way to me at the time).

    After a few years I gave up on UTMM and went with at Stumpjumper from Bills Engineering. At 65 pounds it is as light as a produced motor comes, and at a decent price. Its too heavy to use on my smallest boat, but pushes the big boat well. Still need to build a boat in between to get the most out of the motor.

    After looking at skybust's Four Rivers for sale, I spent a few minutes browsing around the Four Rivers website and noticed some videos. Videos of Four River boats with long tails. Specifically a 2hp long tail from Orion outboards called the Helios. they make a small surface drive mud motor similar to the Copperhead.

    Its what I have been asking for for over four years. Too bad I don't need one anymore.

    Videos are on the Four Rivers website.

    The rest of the videos are on the right side. Pretty cool that a 2HP motor pushes the boat through a beaten down cattail swamp.

    They even show a video of one of the bigger boats with a larger Swamp Rat motor showing how it can be kind of hinky if you are not careful where you run the motor.

    The bad news....these motors do not appear on the Orion website.

    The good news....you can buy one from Four Rivers.

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    Member akblackdawg's Avatar
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    I picked up a 5 hp longtail last year, real heavy, for my 12' jon. Really not happy with either, espeically in regards to packing them to the lake and back. New 5 hp motor, but old steel frame, and over 100 lbs. Puts right along though. Bud

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    Quote Originally Posted by akblackdawg View Post
    I picked up a 5 hp longtail last year, real heavy, for my 12' jon. Really not happy with either, espeically in regards to packing them to the lake and back. New 5 hp motor, but old steel frame, and over 100 lbs. Puts right along though. Bud
    Hey Bud, are you looking to sell?

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    Ray,

    Do you think you'll get one for your smaller boat?

    Erich

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erich_870 View Post
    Ray,

    Do you think you'll get one for your smaller boat?

    Erich
    For the hybrid I have a 3hp angle foot Seahorse, vintage 1953, that I rebuilt. Still needs some lower unit work. I don't think I am going to look for another style of motor for the hybrid. The angle foot works well in the weeds we do have, but not in the mud so I have to watch where I take it. The hybrid would benefit from a hunt deck style pod on the stern to help it float a little better and make it longer. An 8 foot boat is kind of twitchy when under power.

    Since I now have the 7hp stumpjumper I am probably going to finish up designing a garvey style boat to fit that motor. It works on the larger BBSB style boat I have, but is really slow and with the displacement hull and does not work in water less than 10 inches deep. The next garvey style boat will be 12 feet long with a hunt deck and flat bottomed to get the most out of the long tail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    For the hybrid I have a 3hp angle foot Seahorse, vintage 1953, that I rebuilt. Still needs some lower unit work. I don't think I am going to look for another style of motor for the hybrid. The angle foot works well in the weeds we do have, but not in the mud so I have to watch where I take it. The hybrid would benefit from a hunt deck style pod on the stern to help it float a little better and make it longer. An 8 foot boat is kind of twitchy when under power.

    Since I now have the 7hp stumpjumper I am probably going to finish up designing a garvey style boat to fit that motor. It works on the larger BBSB style boat I have, but is really slow and with the displacement hull and does not work in water less than 10 inches deep. The next garvey style boat will be 12 feet long with a hunt deck and flat bottomed to get the most out of the long tail.
    Your Garvey style boat sounds great, I hope you'll consider sharing pics as you work on it!

    I can understand how you've moved on to the Seahorse for your hybrid. I'd love to see pictures of that set up too.

    I wonder why Orion doesn't have any information for this new motor on their website? It seems odd that they had 4Rivers introduce it...

    Erich

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    I will post build photos. I need to get started soon or it will mess up summer/work plans. Right now I have three models sitting on a table and can't make up my mind. The V bow speedy looking one still catches my eye, but I know what I really want is a mini gator trax. The best thing about the flat bottom version is that it will be a quick build. Slower than a hybrid, though.

    The Orion website does not appear to have been updated in a year. They may have also entered into some kind of agreement with Four Rivers thinking the demand would not be overly large.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    I will post build photos. I need to get started soon or it will mess up summer/work plans. Right now I have three models sitting on a table and can't make up my mind. The V bow speedy looking one still catches my eye, but I know what I really want is a mini gator trax. The best thing about the flat bottom version is that it will be a quick build. Slower than a hybrid, though.

    The Orion website does not appear to have been updated in a year. They may have also entered into some kind of agreement with Four Rivers thinking the demand would not be overly large.
    It makes sense if Orion paired up with Four Rivers since their motor is designed for those small boats, but it's disappoint and pretty poor marketing to leave their website outdated for so long.

    Erich

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    thought I'd dig this thread back up.. I am interested in a 2 hp surface drive.. the orion helios sounds close..but it is a long tail.. not too great for a square stern..

    talking with some folks that manufacture surface drives.. I think other folks here have already gone through this one..

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchorrivercrowds View Post
    thought I'd dig this thread back up.. I am interested in a 2 hp surface drive.. the orion helios sounds close..but it is a long tail.. not too great for a square stern..

    talking with some folks that manufacture surface drives.. I think other folks here have already gone through this one..
    Is anyone sounding interested in making a 2 hp surface drive?

    Erich
    Good decisions comes from experience, experience comes from bad decisions...
    http://alaskawaterfowlproducts.blogspot.com/

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    Member KenaiJay's Avatar
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    Like AK Ray, I too have a 7hp Stump Jumper. I am happy with it on my Grumman Sport Canoe/Boat. I do wish it was a little faster (9-10hp) but the light weight makes up for it.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erich_870 View Post
    Is anyone sounding interested in making a 2 hp surface drive?

    Erich
    yea.. found a guy that was having them made.. bt low demand slowed him down.. he is getting back to me today with details.. I am also looking at the helios.. and I guess one other long tail.. can't recall the name.. I am thinking the power loss in the surface drive makes 2 hp not enough to be practical?

    sounds like folks like the 2 hp long tails though.. I have a square stern canoe.. I hear long tails not good for that app.. but I can make it work.. and a 25 pound solution is peaking my interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchorrivercrowds View Post
    yea.. found a guy that was having them made.. bt low demand slowed him down.. he is getting back to me today with details.. I am also looking at the helios.. and I guess one other long tail.. can't recall the name.. I am thinking the power loss in the surface drive makes 2 hp not enough to be practical?

    sounds like folks like the 2 hp long tails though.. I have a square stern canoe.. I hear long tails not good for that app.. but I can make it work.. and a 25 pound solution is peaking my interest.
    I'd love to hear more about his motor!

    Erich
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    http://alaskawaterfowlproducts.blogspot.com/

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    Not sure if 2hp would push much unless its a longtail. Am planning to try a 3hp shorty this winter, hoping for a light weight shorttail alternitive for layout boats.

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