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Thread: Sheep Hunting Article written by a Hardcore Alaskan Resident Dall Sheep Hunter

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    Default Sheep Hunting Article written by a Hardcore Alaskan Resident Dall Sheep Hunter

    Great article written by a true next generation Alaskan Dall Sheep hunter. Looking forward to the second part of this article. Way to tell it how it is Tyler!!!


    http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/liv...ent-1001444774

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Good read. Thanks for posting.

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    Member SkinnyD's Avatar
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    We'd all be in jail for the stuff the state and the guides are getting away with. Collusion is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


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    That was a great article. I hope all residents become aware of the problems that occur in the wilderness in Alaska.

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    great read.

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    Good to see this topic presented to a larger audience. Of course we talk about this topic regularily here on the AOD but its going to take educating all in Alaska and the hunting community in general to get logical regulations on placed on sheep guiding and non-resident take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnclimber View Post
    That was a great article. I hope all residents become aware of the problems that occur in the wilderness in Alaska.

    Sounds like we need to band together and do something about this !!!!........this guy couldn't have stated it any better

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    Default As far as banding together...

    Quote Originally Posted by kahahawai
    Sounds like we need to band together and do something about this !!!!
    Unfortunately, the game management forum doesn't get a lot of views, but we've discussed this issue there many times in the past, and a review of those threads would likely be enlightening for many here.

    I do think that this article may likely push (in the 2nd installment) the guide concession program currently being hammered out as the solution, and could be a setup to push that, but as the org I co-chair has been saying all along, there has always been one simple solution that every other state with sheep has already figured out:
    Limit nonresident opportunity to 10-15% of total harvests and make all nonres sheep hunts draw only. That is not only the fair thing to do, but it is what is mandated in our Alaska state constitution to give residents a clear priority.

    That could be accomplished by the Board of Game, doesn't even require the legislature to do that. And it serves the same objective, to limit the number of both nonres sheep hunters and guides. But the board has been unwilling to go that route statewide, and instead keeps waiting for this guide concession program to be formalized. But that can keeps getting kicked down the road, and now the earliest that could happen is likely 2013 if at all, not to mention it has several negatives whereby some of your resident small-time guides will likely be "aborted" in favor of the Walmart type guide industry that has the power and clout to get guide concession areas. This includes nonresident guides.

    FYI folks, I have attended Board of Game meetings at which various proposals to give a resident sheep hunting priority have been heard. And I have been the only representative of any hunting org to support those proposals. And I have gotten hammered for it too by the other orgs. What does that tell you? Think about it...

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    Member BIG 27's Avatar
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    I personally have been faced with thus dilemma brown bear hunting where me and my partner was on a stock.And the local guide purposely interfered to scare the bear of.It was disappointing to be politically correct. It such a shame that we live in the last frontier and our wilderness at times can be compared to lower 48 where you would expect such encounters.

    Sheep is 10 fold and if the resource isn't managed better between hunting pressure and wolf predation I feel we could be in big trouble. Me and my.hunting partner walked 34 miles last year and found one legal tame. We also found wolf , winter kill sheep. I feel there should be more regulations concerning sheep its a resource like anything else and without management tools the king of the mountain will be threatened.Sheep hunting to me is the pinnaclle and I hope many generations to come will get to experience the allure of the white tipped mountains with green pastures.
    “A man does not climb a mountain without bringing some of it away with him,and leaving something of himself upon it -- Sir Martin Conway

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    After 20 plus years of Sheep hunting in Alaska, I called it as I saw it back in 2009, piss'd off a bunch of folks, but that's life...so here is a little of what I said back in 2009 under the thread "pow fall bear new regs" Feb. 2009.......

    "Alaska by far has the most powerful guides association of any other state, Alaska Professional Hunters Association .Inc (APHA). Their catchphrase or slogan is “dedicated to the wise use of our wildlife resources” hmmm… I wonder what their definition of “Wise” and “Our” is?? I’ll give ya a hint..It’s not in the best interest of us Alaska residents! Thier motto should read “What’s good for us, is good for you Alaska residents”
    This is right off their web site under “Publications”….


    On Dec. 20th, the APHA Board of Directors agreed
    to fund $30,000 to retain lobbyist Pat Carter for another
    year of representation with the State Legislature. This
    will be the fifth year of representation Pat has provided
    for APHA at the same rate.”

    Wow! A lobbyist in Juneau who they have paid $150K in the last five years…. Who’s looking out for us my fellow Alaska resident?? AF&G?.....I don’t think so, Alaska FNAWS…right.. Their in the hip pockets of the National FNAWS and rich non-resident hunters. Alaska FNAWS apposes the plugging requirements.. I still can’t figure that one out? The Alaska FNAWS president made conments about it on this site last year. I was an 18 year supporter of the National FNAWS, but did not renew my subscription after reading the Alaska chapters views. The National FNAWS has helped to put a lot sheep on the mountain….just whose mountain? It surly hasn’t been Alaska unless they have some secret mountain their hiding them on!... Alaska fish and game added the drawing sheep permit # 123 for one tag, (the rest of the trophy ram areas have been shot out!) This was exclusively so they could get more money for the Governor’s tag.…Just how much of that money went back toward Alaska’s Dall sheep? Or how much money from all the former Gov. Tags went back to Alaska’s sheep?

    The management for the 14C sheep unit is an absolute joke to say the leased! (In case you’re wondering? I’ve hunted in 14C three times).....This unit has some of the best gen for growing huge trophy Dall sheep but the AF&G has sat back and watched it get hammer for years mainly by two “premiere” guides services so hard it now barely produces but a few 40” rams…This unit should be kicking out 4-6 B&C rams a year….look at some of the other states like Montana. 50% of the sheep taken in some units make book!
    The TMA unit isn’t much better it’s getting the chit hunted out of it by a few “premiere” guides too! (Yeah been there too, I’ve hunted in a TMA 2 times)…with all the drawing appacation services out there now like Hunt’ in fool, Cabelas T.A.G.S., H.A.S. etc…we don’t have a very good chance any more!....You don’t even have to put in, you just call them up with a credit card and they‘ll do for you!
    The AF&G has also sat back and watched the rest of the Chugach range outside 14C get shot out to where you couldn’t hardly find a full curl ram….so they made it also drawing for sheep “Any Ram” …now that took some real thinking there boyz….now that we don’t have any full curls left you can shoot dink’s….What are ya going to do with a half curl? Make some knife handles? Is that the states new sheep management plan? When there’s no more full curls, go to “Any Ram” …how sad it really is…
    If you have hunted sheep in the last few years you know the rest of the state has gotten hammered too! Maybe it will all go “Any Ram” we have that going for us!

    It go’s on and on…..700 registered guides on the Kenai river, 17 registered sheep guides on one river in the Brooks range...and the over fishing of salt/fresh waters from fishing charters.
    Yeah and one of my favorites…A non-residents guide can’t shoot a Grizzly, Sheep or Mt. Goat because he or she is a non-resident!.....but he or she can guide non-resident hunters….What’s that? Maybe it’s some of the definition of “Wise” in the APHA’s motto?

    Their’s only so much of our wildlife resources out there!

    My fellow Alaskan’s who want back a better quality of hunting and fishing….there’s a line in the sand, one side is some of us Alaska resident hunters and the other side is the AF&G, APHA, FANWS etc….If you don’t care!....keep your head in the sand! We have been sold out and fleeced so hard in the last 20 years it’s unbelievable to me"

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    Well, I agree with the guy also. I have always been against nonresident guides who pay no taxes up here raping our resources. And of course nonresidents should be draw and 10% of the tags. And I dont even like letting your relatives hunt without a guide as long as we have scarce resources. We gotta do something and just simply closing things down gradually without prioritizing resident hunters and limiting the guides is really raw.I think our priority needs to be keeping as many open areas for resident hunters as possible. There are moose areas that are draw for nonresident and open for residents so its possible...
    “I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. “ Fred Bear

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramhunter View Post
    After 20 plus years of Sheep hunting in Alaska, I called it as I saw it back in 2009, piss'd off a bunch of folks, but that's life...so here is a little of what I said back in 2009 under the thread "pow fall bear new regs" Feb. 2009.......

    "Alaska by far has the most powerful guides association of any other state, Alaska Professional Hunters Association .Inc (APHA). Their catchphrase or slogan is “dedicated to the wise use of our wildlife resources” hmmm… I wonder what their definition of “Wise” and “Our” is?? I’ll give ya a hint..It’s not in the best interest of us Alaska residents! Thier motto should read “What’s good for us, is good for you Alaska residents”
    This is right off their web site under “Publications”….


    On Dec. 20th, the APHA Board of Directors agreed
    to fund $30,000 to retain lobbyist Pat Carter for another
    year of representation with the State Legislature. This
    will be the fifth year of representation Pat has provided
    for APHA at the same rate.”

    Wow! A lobbyist in Juneau who they have paid $150K in the last five years…. Who’s looking out for us my fellow Alaska resident?? AF&G?.....I don’t think so, Alaska FNAWS…right.. Their in the hip pockets of the National FNAWS and rich non-resident hunters. Alaska FNAWS apposes the plugging requirements.. I still can’t figure that one out? The Alaska FNAWS president made conments about it on this site last year. I was an 18 year supporter of the National FNAWS, but did not renew my subscription after reading the Alaska chapters views. The National FNAWS has helped to put a lot sheep on the mountain….just whose mountain? It surly hasn’t been Alaska unless they have some secret mountain their hiding them on!... Alaska fish and game added the drawing sheep permit # 123 for one tag, (the rest of the trophy ram areas have been shot out!) This was exclusively so they could get more money for the Governor’s tag.…Just how much of that money went back toward Alaska’s Dall sheep? Or how much money from all the former Gov. Tags went back to Alaska’s sheep?

    The management for the 14C sheep unit is an absolute joke to say the leased! (In case you’re wondering? I’ve hunted in 14C three times).....This unit has some of the best gen for growing huge trophy Dall sheep but the AF&G has sat back and watched it get hammer for years mainly by two “premiere” guides services so hard it now barely produces but a few 40” rams…This unit should be kicking out 4-6 B&C rams a year….look at some of the other states like Montana. 50% of the sheep taken in some units make book!
    The TMA unit isn’t much better it’s getting the chit hunted out of it by a few “premiere” guides too! (Yeah been there too, I’ve hunted in a TMA 2 times)…with all the drawing appacation services out there now like Hunt’ in fool, Cabelas T.A.G.S., H.A.S. etc…we don’t have a very good chance any more!....You don’t even have to put in, you just call them up with a credit card and they‘ll do for you!
    The AF&G has also sat back and watched the rest of the Chugach range outside 14C get shot out to where you couldn’t hardly find a full curl ram….so they made it also drawing for sheep “Any Ram” …now that took some real thinking there boyz….now that we don’t have any full curls left you can shoot dink’s….What are ya going to do with a half curl? Make some knife handles? Is that the states new sheep management plan? When there’s no more full curls, go to “Any Ram” …how sad it really is…
    If you have hunted sheep in the last few years you know the rest of the state has gotten hammered too! Maybe it will all go “Any Ram” we have that going for us!

    It go’s on and on…..700 registered guides on the Kenai river, 17 registered sheep guides on one river in the Brooks range...and the over fishing of salt/fresh waters from fishing charters.
    Yeah and one of my favorites…A non-residents guide can’t shoot a Grizzly, Sheep or Mt. Goat because he or she is a non-resident!.....but he or she can guide non-resident hunters….What’s that? Maybe it’s some of the definition of “Wise” in the APHA’s motto?

    Their’s only so much of our wildlife resources out there!

    My fellow Alaskan’s who want back a better quality of hunting and fishing….there’s a line in the sand, one side is some of us Alaska resident hunters and the other side is the AF&G, APHA, FANWS etc….If you don’t care!....keep your head in the sand! We have been sold out and fleeced so hard in the last 20 years it’s unbelievable to me"
    Well said and Amen! And just to add this to it, don't forget the wonderful work SFW provides! Don't think there aren't any non-resident/guide ties to that organization along with BIG $$!

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    I know in Oregon only 10% of the deer and elk tags are allocated to non-residents, thier sheep tags it is 5%. So if Alaska went this oute 5% of 6 tags well .3 So I guess round to 1? When I was in Arizona USO not the USO that supports troops but a big time outfitter group sued Arizona over the allocation of tags for Deer and Elk. This was the first year Arizona went to on-line appllications, and just a processing fee if I remember right. Anyhow USO sued Arizoan, Arizona lost and the state had to issue a whole bunch of tags ( I forget what the grounds were for the lawsuit). Anyhow the next year Arizona went back to send your application in by mail on top of the tag fee as well.

    So adjust things were non-residents have to send in paper application only with thier signature on it will eliminate the whole Cabelas thing. Also allocate 5% or less of all tags to non-residents... And raise the non-resident sheep tags so they are comaparable to other states Bighorn sheep tags, then take all fees made off this and put it back into the Dall sheep programs!

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    Member SkinnyD's Avatar
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    All the chatter is about resource management, but I think a greater issue is personal human safety. Suppose the hunter from the article was alone rather than with his friend... then suppose he told the guide to stick it... then suppose he was "found" several days later at the bottom of a canyon with a flat skull. Why would anyone investigate the circumstances of his accident? People fall off mountains all the time....

    Alaska isn't much different from 1871 Tombstone, AZ... the law man is a long way off.
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


  15. #15

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    If a guide purposely came to me and "told" me to stay out of a drainage, I would guarantee that I would go that direction. Had the same issue on the Kenai River fishing once, a guide came along and said we were "hogging" his fishing hole. I told him when were done, he could have it back.

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    I'll throw some money for an Alaska Resident Hunter lobbyest,I know the other side has deep pockets,but maybe it would help.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by coues32 View Post
    I'll throw some money for an Alaska Resident Hunter lobbyest,I know the other side has deep pockets,but maybe it would help.
    Makes a lot of sense!! Count me in for a donation!

  18. #18
    Member Marc Taylor's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed from the article was that the Biologist was an AVID sheep hunter.

    Now, you gonna call that guy to ask where to hunt and he's gonna tell you what?! NOTHING.

    WE ARE EVEN COMPETING WITH THE PEOPLE PAID TO COUNT THE SHEEP.

    Taylor

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northway View Post
    Makes a lot of sense!! Count me in for a donation!
    I to have a non-res. guide story/encounter from the Kenai that still pisses me off to this day. You can go ahead and count me in on this one.

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    I lived that article... wood river, met an out of state guide at the airstrip, used tarps and poles so he "didn't have to pay for a established camp", No legal rams but a load of 7/8ths, his motivation for guiding "its easy money".

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